Dollhouse - season 2 (1 Viewer)

[Citizen87645]

That was UPN that picked up Buffy (for broadcast) after Season 5. Angel and Buffy have always been produced by Fox Studios (which as someone mentioned is distinct from Fox Network). Angel was also on the WB for its entire five season run.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Cameron, actually, that is incorrect. It's part of Fox Broadcasting, which, runs Fox Studios, 20th, Century Fox, etc. Not to mention that the show ran on UPN which ran its broadcasting through Fox affiliate TV networks.

If the show were Warners, then Fox Home Video would not have released the series to DVD.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge

Cameron, actually, that is incorrect. It's part of Fox Broadcasting, which, runs Fox Studios, 20th, Century Fox, etc. Not to mention that the show ran on UPN which ran its broadcasting through Fox affiliate TV networks.

If the show were Warners, then Fox Home Video would not have released the series to DVD.

Fox Broadcasting Company does not run 20th Century Fox or Fox Studios (which is a studio in Australia where they shoot movies).

UPN was Paramount's network. Maybe in some markets, they ran programs on a Fox affiliate but it certainly wasn't the norm.

And as has been said, Buffy and Angel were produced by Fox and aired on The WB and UPN. Fox had nothing to do with either show being cancelled as you first said.

 

[Citizen87645]

I never said the show was Warner's (I don't think anyone else has said that either), just that it ran on the WB Network.

If the show were Warners, then Fox Home Video would not have released the series to DVD.

 

[Greg.K]

I liked Dollhouse for the most part, and I didn't really have a problem with Dusku or Kranz. However, it really hasn't been something that I've gotten all that excited about. It's a filler show that I catch up on when there's nothing better to watch on the DVR.

If they can give it a good sendoff, it will at least have been treated better by Fox than Firefly was.

 

[Hanson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Dial

My point is that I think a lot of people were watching Dollhouse just so they could support Joss Whedon, and not because the show was actually amazing.

That's my experience in a nutshell. I so wanted to like it, but after 15 episodes, I just got tired of cringing at Eliza's line readings and the stream of uninspired episodes. As I recall, I only liked three. The rest were forgettable to flat out bad.

 

[Nick Martin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Dial

Acting: Decent, overall, but not in the right places. Eliza Dushku, Fran Kranz (simply crap), Dichen Lachman, and most of the actors in "client" roles were poor. Harry Lennix, Tahmoh Penikett, Amy Acker, Miracle Laurie, and Olivia Williams were all great. However, you really need your lead to be amazing, and your guest stars need to be likewise amazing. The best guest stars were from Battlestar or Firefly.

Was Enver Gjokai left off the list intentionally or just forgotten?

No issues here or anything, it's just that if the show has one solid, convincing, all-around true acting talent it's him.

 

[Josh Dial]

I thought Enver Gjokaj was rather middling in the show. His scenes as Victor were boring, while most of his work as an active were merely decent. "Solid" is not a word I would use to describe him, though he was easily the best doll on the show (ignoring Amy Acker, who I don't count as a doll, though she technically was one).

Hopefully, some of the better players on the show, like Penikett and Laurie, will end up on shows that are actually good. I could see Laurie on Caprica (though I think most of the cast is set, should the show get picked up beyond the pilot). I just hope Penikett doesn't end up on some by-the-numbers cop show--he would have been good on NCIS:LA, however.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I'm afraid that I won't miss Dollhouse at all and I *loved* Firefly. You have to look at more than just the producer on a Sci-Fi show. Firefly had a great staff, and great chemistry among the actors, producers, writers, and post-production SFX team. It all translated to terrific entertainment. Of the 13 eps, I would have to give at least 8 of them "Four Stars" out of four. It just doesn't happen like that all that often. Dollhouse may have produced two eps (to date) that approached the overall quality of Firefly. The sad part is, "Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronciles" was "oh so close" to that magical mix. The entire first season (9 eps) was great and focused. The actors and the SFX were terrific and the stories mostly compelling. (Heck, I thought the series first season was better than the T3 and T4 theatrical efforts combined, mainly due to the fact that the series was true to the "James Cameron vision" of the concept.) The problem was, they only produced about 9 more great eps in the second season. Everything was still there, except for a writers' lapse in the middle of the season. Still, it was close to hitting its stride, and I think it's evident now that Fox cancelled the wrong series last season.

 

[Josh Dial]

I agree fully with your sentiments, Joseph.

I can't for the life of me, see why Sarah Connor was cancelled so close to the release of Terminator: Salvation. If that wasn't a chance for free marketing, I don't know what is. At the very least they should have held off until the last possible second (August?). Not to get off track, but I also think Lena Headey was the best Sarah Connor--perfectly "rough," yet also with the right amount of sadness. I'm glad she's going to be in "A Game of Thrones," which HBO better not screw up.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge

Don't criticize me for my opinion. Fox just managed to bet on the wrong horse again and now they have paid for it. Dollhouse just plains sucks.

I wasn't criticizing you for your opinion, I was criticizing the manner in which you expressed it. I have no problem with you disliking the show; as other comments demonstrate, you're in good company there. But to rush over and cheer the demise of a show that others enjoyed because the network canceled a completely different show a year ago that you enjoyed just seems spiteful and meanspirited.

The rest of my post wasn't criticism, it was correction of inaccurate assertions.

Oh, and Angel is owned by 20th Century Fox and so is Buffy. I have the shows right in front of me. Warner lost the rights to the shows and Fox picked it up after the 5th season. Fox also ended up with Angel as well.

I don't think you understand the distinction between the production studio that makes the show and the network that orders episodes for broadcast. Joss Whedon's Mutant Enemy production shingle is based at 20th Century Fox Television. All of his shows have been produced by 20th Century Fox right from the beginning. That's different from the networks that aired them; The WB broadcast the first five seasons of "Buffy", and the UPN brought the rights for the last two seasons. All five seasons of "Angel" aired on The WB. Because 20th Century Fox produced the shows, it holds the home video and syndication rights to the shows. This is why the DVDs for all of Joss's shows are released by 20th Century Fox.

News Corp. owns the 20the Century Fox film studio, the Fox Broadcasting Company television network, and the 20th Century Fox Television production studio. Because "Buffy" and "Angel" aired on non-Fox networks, they didn't benefit from the synergy that "Firefly" and "Dollhouse" benefited from. In this manner, there were the inverse of "T:SCC": "T:SCC" was produced by Warner Bros. the studio and aired on Fox the network. If the network and studio are owned by the same company, the network has a greater financial incentive to keep the show around. This undoubtedly played a role in "Dollhouse"'s renewal last season. But as has been said, "T:SCC" got two seasons before Fox pulled the plug, and "Dollhouse" got two seasons before Fox pulled the plug. It's not like one got shafted at the expense of the other.

 

[Nick Martin]

If TV networks produced the series they owned, House would be on NBC, The O.C. would have been on The WB, Buffy would have been on Fox, CSI could potentially have been a UPN show, Veronica Mars would have been on The WB...and the list goes on.

However as it has been explained it was never remotely as close to that at all, since one (network) has nothing to do with the other (producing studio).

I'll muddy the waters a bit more - ANGEL, produced by 20th Century Fox, broadcast on The WB, was filmed at Paramount studios.

Dollhouse might be filmed there as well, possibly even on the same stages but I'm not 100% about that.

 

[Nick Martin]

according to iMDB, Dollhouse is filmed at 20th Century Fox Studios. Guess that makes it a bit simpler.

 

[TravisR]

Back to back episodes start tonight.

 

[Joe_H]

I hope they're not too concerned with the ratings this first night back with it going up against the Monk series finale. When I'm home on a Friday night, I usually watch Dollhouse live and then Monk/ Psych on the DVR, but will definitely be rewatching last week's Monk and then the finale tonight.

... Though I guess the ratings really don't matter any more, with them not getting a second season and already committing to finishing this season.

 

[Joe_H]

Not quite the role I pictured them putting Summer Glau in. I don't really think it worked for her, personally.

Still, pretty good episodes tonight, I'm glad they were paired together instead of a week apart.

Seems like Topher and Bennett just inadvertently started the path to the future in Epitaph One with that device.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

2 good Dollhouses tonight but once again undermined by Dushku's lack of acting range, especially during one critical scene.

 

[Josh Dial]

Interesting interview with Whedon in the Chicago Tribune: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/12/dollhouse-fox-joss-whedon.html

I for one was surprised when Whedon said he intended one of the central concepts of the show to be the "exploration of sexuality and intimacy, in all its form," and that he was disappointed when Fox shyed away from that. Whedon thinks pretty high of himself if he thinks it was because looking "more closely at the desires and fantasy lives of the Dollhouse's clients" was too risque for Fox. He goes on to say that basically he was pushing the envelope and challenging the norms of sexuality on network TV, and that he was moved away from his original concept for the show.

Well, you know what Mr. Whedon? Your original concept was pretty crap, and I think the "changes" Fox made actually improved the show. You say "it wasn't just sex," in reference to people commenting that Dollhouse is "trafficking/sex for money." Say what you like, but it's clear to me that you tried to make a show in the same vein as the recent, darker, dramas on HBO and showtime (to name a few networks), where you essentially root for the villians, or at least empathasize with them, while exploring deviant lifestyles (organized crime, drugs, et cetera).

You tried and you failed--at least have the balls to admit that you failed on your own, in your original concept. The Dollhouse employees weren't anywhere near as interesting or multi-faceted as say Tony Soprano or Stringer Bell, and I found it hard to root for anyone but Ballard and the dolls. If this was intended, that the audience is supposed to root for bringing down the dollhouse, then fox shouldn't have had to move the show towards that goal.

I don't think the show ever had the potential to truly tackle the "questions about identity" that Whedon claims was his goal. I'll be looking to Caprica for that (Jane Espenson made a good choice jumping ship).

It seems Whedon is blaiming Fox's stance on sex as the reason the show failed, but what it appears to me is that Fox was really just trying to save a mediocre show by moving it towards something that was at least entertaining. Whedon comes off like egotistical and delusional.

That all being said, Olivia Williams looked pretty damned hot this week--I daresay she's the best-looking part of the show.

 

[Hanson]

I stopped watching the show a while ago, but Whedon's concept, which may have worked on Showtime, was never gonna fly on Fox. I don't even understand why he thought it was ever going to work on Fox or any other major network. It might have worked on FX, but seriously, this would have made a must see Showtime or HBO series.

A bizarre bit of hubris on Joss' part. He was actually disppointed that Fox didn't want to follow his vision? It's like trying to stage Oh Calcutta! as a high school musical -- you thought this was going to happen?.

 

[mattCR]

A bizarre bit of hubris on Joss' part. He was actually disppointed that Fox didn't want to follow his vision? It's like trying to stage Oh Calcutta! as a high school musical -- you thought this was going to happen?.

I don't think he's disappointed at all. In every public statement he's made, he's been very open about how grateful he is for Fox giving him the term he has.
The two eps last night were very, very good. In fact, probably the best sci-fi elements the show has had. But you're right, the direction this show could take would be perfect for say, FX, but it just can't be done to the extent that would make it high quality on a broadcast network.