DolbyIIx vs Thx Ultra 2?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Rick Jones, Dec 7, 2003.

  1. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Extra

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    If i recall hearing correctly both of these will take a 5.1 signal(Such as DD or DTS) and convert them to 7.1 Anyone have expeirnce with either of these? They sound like a great idea for myself who wants to be able to use all 7.1 of my setup most of the time. Would it be worth the extra for the Ultra 2 feature vs a reciever that didn't have it??
     
  2. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Everyone is waiting for some real-world reports on DPL IIx. When there's something to report, it will probably appear in this thread.

    As for THX Ultra 2, it's designed to process 5.1 soundtracks for a 7-speaker array that haven't been specifically encoded for EX (or DTS ES). (Remember that the official THX recommendation for EX is to have two rear center speakers.) I have it, but I don't use it, because the signal sent to the two rear speakers is essentially mono, and Lexicon's Logic7 creates stereo rears and generally does a better job.

    M.
     
  3. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    To clarify, DPLIIx takes stereo sources, and turns them into "7.1" sound. EX expands the surrounds in DD 5.1 into 6.1/7.1. They aren't really comparable.

    Logic 7, does sorta both. The lexicon gurus know a lot more than I do about L7.

    also see this thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=171771
     
  4. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  5. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    My understanding was only that Ultra2 had more advanced processing so the two rears were different, rather than mono. EX-processing on non-EX 5.1 titles *might* collapse to the rear if it's all mono back there, but I've never had this happen. You are correct though, that just as with PL/PLII use on soundtracks or music not mixed specifically with that processing in mind, you may get mixed results.

    Lexicon doesn't have much info on their site in regards to Logic 7, which I always wanted to know more about.

    I guess you could call it sorta, because Logic 7 is such it's own animal, because it handles both. Doesn't it take 5.1 on the fly and downmix it to stereo, then unfold it into a 7.1 field? This is what is a little more intensive(and, IMO, better) than just Ultra2 processing. And can't it deal with several subwoofers much better?

    Well I just was trying to wade through some lexicon papers, but they're not very clear. Oh well.
     
  6. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  7. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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  8. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    I have the advantage of having used Lexicon processors and Logic7 since 1996. I got one of the first DC-1's equipped with Dolby Digital to ship in the U.S. At the time, only a a few receivers came with DD (all of them made by Pioneer), and there were no DVDs or players. My first DD sources were all laserdiscs.

    M.
     
  9. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Extra

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    Actually if you look at Dolby's site it says it will convert 5.1 DD signals to 7.1 as well. While thx ultra may work better, this is a good option for us not able to shell out around 2k for an Ultra2 reciever.
     
  10. Stephen_Moor

    Stephen_Moor Extra

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    DPL IIx is made to transfer Stereo Sound (2 Channel) into 7 Channel Matrixed. Just like DPL II takes 2 channel and matrix's into 5 channel. Why would you use DPL IIx on 5.1 signals(Dolby Digital or DTS)? If you are buying a receiver with DPL IIx I guarentee that it will decode DTS ES and Dolby Digital EX which is what you would want to use for these signals instead of the DPL IIx. Again this New Format is meant for 2 Channel sources!!
     
  11. Garrett Adams

    Garrett Adams Supporting Actor

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    FWIW, here's what I read on another forum on 12/4/03:

    "PLIIx actively steers the Ls/Rs in a 5.1 mix to the four surrounds, so it can more precisely locate panned signals across the back than either straight EX or Ultra II. PLIIx is very similar to EX in many respects, and with certain signals, particularly hard back effects, they will sound the same even on a 7.1 system.

    My feeling is that PLIIx never sounds worse than EX, sometimes sounds the same, and often sounds better. In all cases, the sound is fully consistent with the intent of the soundtrack--it is not an artful redesign." Roger Dressler, Dolby Laboratories
     
  12. Stephen_Moor

    Stephen_Moor Extra

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    I will guarentee that you will be able to tell a huge difference between Dolby Digital EX and DPL IIx. You are talking Descrete Digital Signals versus Matrixed Analog Signals. There is no comparison.

    Just remember this they said the same thing when DPL II came out that it will sound almost as good as Dolby Digital. Try this for an experiment. Watch LOTR in Dolby Digital and then watch it in DPL II and tell me what you think.

    DPL IIx is just a another format they add to try to get you to upgrade to a New Receiver. It is a step up from DPL II for people that have a 6 or 7 Channel setup but not worth going out to Buy a New Receiver just for it.
     
  13. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    OK, so it does in fact, deal with 5.1 in a similar way as Logic7.

    My previous statement that "To clarify, DPLIIx takes stereo sources, and turns them into "7.1" sound. EX expands the surrounds in DD 5.1 into 6.1/7.1. They aren't really comparable."

    Is not correct. They are in a way comparable, as explained.
     
  14. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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  15. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Except for DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, there is no 7.1 discrete format available yet to consumers.

    It sounds like Dolby ProLogic IIx is their idea of Logic 7 with stereo matrix extraction for the back surrounds via the two discrete left and right side surround channels.

    Now it will be a battle of Logic IIx vs. Logic7!

    I'd much rather we had high resolution, 8 channel discrete PCM than all this matrix crap!!!!!

    Dan
     
  16. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  17. Roger Dressler

    Roger Dressler Stunt Coordinator

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    Stephen wrote:
    >>I will guarentee that you will be able to tell a huge difference between Dolby Digital EX and DPL IIx. You are talking Descrete Digital Signals versus Matrixed Analog Signals. There is no comparison.
     
  18. PaulKoss

    PaulKoss Agent

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  19. Stephen_Moor

    Stephen_Moor Extra

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    It was asking me to compare DDEX with DD5.1+PLIIx

    I'm confused. How do you DD5.1+PPIIx? Are you saying you can use Dolby Digital and DPLIIx at the same time for 7.1.

    My understanding is DPLIIx takes any 2 Channels Source and matrix's into 7 channels. I can't see how DPLIIx will be able to take DD5.1 signal and use DPLIIX to matrix it into 7 channels. Am I wrong? Can anyone post a link where it says DPLIIx will do this?

    I have read up on this format a little but never saw anywhere that this format will work with anything but 2 Channel sources.
     
  20. Stephen_Moor

    Stephen_Moor Extra

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    Forget that statement I found a little more info. Here is a quote and I can't believe Dolby is saying this.

    12. Will audio signals encoded in Dolby Digital EX provide better performance than standard 5.1 encoding software when they are decoded into 7.1 channels by Dolby Pro Logic IIx? In other words, will it sound better?

    Probably, but not necessarily. The accuracy and precision of the Dolby Pro Logic IIx decoding process results in a highly natural and involving surround sound experience from stereo and 5.1 content, as well as from content encoded in Dolby Digital EX. The end result is heavily dependent on the nature of the original soundtrack mix.

    Are they saying that this New format(DPLIIx) will sound better then DDEX. How is that possible? They are laying it on thick to push for New Receiver Sales with DPLIIx. I can't wait to test these formats against each other. Personally I won't upgrade for the New Format, but it will be interesting to see how much Dolby is Full of it.

    Personally I'm a DTS Man. DTS has always seemed to be a superior format and its a shame that more DVD's aren't decoded in that format.
     

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