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Dolby Atmos: Determined At All Costs

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Ronald Epstein, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

    My theater room is small. The Denon is a flagship receiver and with the Outlaw amp, I am getting an incredible amount of sound.

    With a $6k investment in the 4k projector I am about to receive, buying separates is the last thing on my list.

    You guys do suggest an uptick in quality -- but really, how much?

    Now as far as running the main channels out of the Outlaw amp...

    I could do that. It's just going to be confusing. I would have to tear everything apart to start rewiring. Would there really be a substantial gain using the amp for the main channels and the Denon for the overheads? With outputs not properly marked, I am not sure I could figure out how to do it.

    I never thought the Outlaw 5000 amp was substantially better than the Denon receiver. I never compared specs.
     
  2. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Ron, first there's the elements of an amp that don't show up in the specs. The attack, dynamics and control a better amp can provide, with the same power rating. The biggest one, though, is hidden in plain sight, and nobody pays any attention to it. One says "Two channels driven" while the other says "ALL channels driven."

    When you watch a surround movie, how many channels are you using? Two of them, or ALL of them? Receivers are built to spec out well driving only two channels, but are starved by insufficient power supplies to drive all channels. There is nothing you can do to improve that. A good external amp has sufficient power coming in to provide sufficient power going out.

    Look at the specs and see for yourself.

    BIG difference.
     
  3. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    John,

    Thank you.

    Is the Outlaw 5000 a really significant amp?

    As I stated, with enough push, I'll go and rewire everything. However, I am concerned that the labeling of the outputs will be confusing. Do I also have to change the speaker outputs?

    This really has to be worth my time for me to tear everything apart and make these changes.
     
  4. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Ron, it would take a lot of work, and it's unfortunate it wasn't set up that way originally. I'm not going to really push you to make the change after it's already all set up. As far as the 5000, no, it's not a major amp, but one intended to compete power and cost wise with a good receiver, which also diminishes what benefit you would get. Something like an Emotiva XPA-3 for the front would make it more worthwhile. Maybe it's just something to keep in mind if/when you are rewiring things anyway later on.
     
  5. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    John,

    Thank you for your honest assessment.

    Listen, you have been of great help to me. Thank you for your continued advice. I also want to thank everyone else participating in this thread for their input. I watch this thread very closely.
     
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  6. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Glad to help, Ron.

    I kind of exaggerated how much work it would be, but I don't know how accessible the back of your equipment is. You would have to change the channel configuration in your receiver to direct the front three channels, and probably the side surrounds to the 5000, swap around the interconnects you are currently using from being the Atmos channels to those channels, and the reverse with the Atmos channels. Then, you'd have to swap the speaker cables to the new outputs. Finally, you'd need to re-run any calibration you use, because the levels of the channels that had been moved would be different. It's not really more work than when you originally set up the 5000 and Atmos. It's just a matter of configuring it differently so the 5000 is powering the channels that face the greatest power demands.
     
  7. Message #267 of 282 Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
    John Dirk

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    If I'm understanding your question correctly, for any channel you will be switching from your receiver to the Outlaw, you'll have to make the full change. Honestly, it's probably better to do a complete tear down and rewire.

    I had to go through this when I purchased my Marantz pre/pro and Outlaw 7140 a couple of years ago. In my case I was also starting from scratch in a new home and, yes, all of the wiring was a serious pain. Since I had to do it though, I took the time to color code and label everything this time around which makes any subsequent wiring tasks much easier. In the long run It's definitely worth the time and effort.

    I've never owned the model 5000 but I can tell you the 7140 is an absolute beast. I would suspect the 5000 is of similar fortitude.
     
  8. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    The 5000 seems to be pretty similar to the 7140. Just a little less power and five channels instead of seven. I wonder why they discontinued the 7140, because now all their amps other than the 5000 appear to be well over $2K. The 5000 is a real bargain.
     
  9. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    I saw that this morning. @JohnRice I'm thinking of picking up the 5000 at that bargain price to pair it with my 7140 so now I only have to buy the pre-amp/processor if I want to go completely separates through the whole system next year or the year after.
     
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  10. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I would do it. Then you can use the 5000 to power Atmos, with one channel left over, and use the 7140 for the mains and traditional surrounds. When I started into Atmos, I considered the 5000, but in the end I already have Emotiva the rest of the way around and decided to just go with them for the visual appeal, since all my amps sit together outside the rack.
     
  11. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    That's what I've been thinking since early this morning.
     
  12. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    @Robert Crawford one of the main things I like about having good amps is, I don't have to limit my speaker choices. My surround system has always had difficult speakers. Low impedance and low sensitivity. When I choose speakers, I don't have to worry about whether my amps will have difficulty driving them. All the speakers in my current surround system are 4 Ohm. That would be a problem with a receiver.
     
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  13. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    My Paradigms from 1995 say hi!
     
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  14. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    My Thiel CS 3.6 from 1993 say hello back.
     
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  15. John Dirk

    John Dirk Screenwriter
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    Who's Hatfield and who's McKoy in this one. :)
     
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  16. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Sam and I have been sparring for years.
     
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  17. John Dirk

    John Dirk Screenwriter
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    The 7140 is based on the [also discontinued] 7125, which [I believe ] was Outlaw's best seller in it's day. Same chassis and everything. No idea why it was discontinued. The model 5000 was manufactured in China which likely explains it's lower retail price. Outlaws current offerings seem to have returned to US-based manufacturers.
     
  18. John Dirk

    John Dirk Screenwriter
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    I know, and you keep it respectable, which I admire.
     
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  19. John Dirk

    John Dirk Screenwriter
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    As a 7140 owner I was curious and did a little checking. According to Outlaw they were unable to reliably source parts for the 7140 and had no choice but to discontinue it.
     
  20. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Both the 7140 and the 5000 seem like real bargains. Prices for this stuff have gone up pretty rapidly. I got most of my Emotiva gear long enough ago that those price hikes hadn't hit yet. I think my XPA-5 was $640. Since most of my speakers are 4 ohm, that's five channels of 300 WPC, all channels driven. Then 500 wpc with an XPA-2 in the front, and that was even less, I think. Admittedly, 300 wpc for surround speakers is gross overkill, but I have it, so there it is.

    How ya been, @John Dirk ?
     

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