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Does Yamaha have a DSP field similair to Pro logic 2?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ted Ross, Jan 3, 2002.

  1. Ted Ross

    Ted Ross Second Unit

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    I have a Yamaha RX-v1000 & I was wondering if any of the DSP fields it offers are similiar to Prologic 2(one that will have full range surround channels)-I know HK does their own version, just curious if Yamaha does.
     
  2. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    If Yamaha didn't "invent" DSP, they at least have a lot of experience with it. I don't think that the DSP on the 1000 gives a DPL-II-like effect; the 5-channel stereo is closer. On several receivers, I find the 5-ch stereo not vastly different from the DPL-II (listening to music and older movies).

    I'm debating getting the Yammy 800 or the 1000 (prices are falling). My hesitation is the lack of DPL-II. They both have DTS, which is *great* for DTS movies.

    Have you tried the Tri-Field? It might be Yammy's idea of DPL-II. It creates a surround field, which, by technical description should have a similar effect (to DPL-II).

    I'd like to know what you think of the Tri-Field if you check it out. I can't tell you how to enable it. It might be "in" the DSP effects.

    I've only heard these in showrooms. I prefer to buy stuff that I can test out here, and return/upgrade until I find what I like. One Yamaha dealer has agreed to that, and I may take him up on it--would have to return the H-K first :).
     
  3. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Second Unit

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    I have found that On my 795a that the 70mm adventure seems to work like prologic 2... I use it with most of my kids vhs and for movies on pay per view and get quite a good efect. On my long remote.its the dsp button on the far right..if that helps any.

    I have not found anything on my yammie that even remotly sounds good 5channel stereo...imo
     
  4. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    After posting, I gave the H-K 520 another listen, through all the processed sounds, and read the manual some more.

    Multi-channel (5, 7) stereo duplicates the stereo into the rear speakers (for parties, for example), and does not emulate surround, which is what DPL-II, Logic 7, and DTS (what's the name for it?).

    On the H-K, the best is by far Pro Logic II. The worst is the Logic 7, which is heavily promoted in the manual as the best thing since white bread.

    Which makes me lean towards the 1200 from Yamaha. Can you upgrade your 1000? I mean will they take it back in exchange for a 1200 if you want the DPL-II? The difference here was $200. after Christmas (the model number being the price in Canadian dollars: $1,000. for the V1000 and $1,200. for the V1200).
     
  5. Stacy Huff

    Stacy Huff Second Unit

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    I don't think that the Yamaha DSP modes are really similar to DPL II or Logic 7. Those surround modes extract ambience that is already present, and steer them to the surrounds. You get full range stereo surrounds, which in the case of Logic 7, can be steered between 4 surround speakers.

    The Yamaha DSP's synthesize space with artificial reflections and reverb. I'm not sure whether or not the Yamaha modes provide for full range surrounds, but I don't think that I've ever read that they provide stereo surrounds rather than mono. They are more about creating a different acoustic space within your living room, to make it sound larger, or more reflective. Having said that, I always used the DSP modes with my RX-V995 and then my DSP-A1. I felt it gave me a greater sense of envelopment and didn't sound nearly as flat as regular DPL or DD/DTS. I did, however, have to tone down the default settings to keep it from having too much reverb and echo, especially in the dialogue.

    Since I got my Lexicon MC-1 I've used Logic 7 almost exclusively. There is a difference in what is going on. The surrounds aren't necessarily more active all the time, but the effects back there can be incredibly discrete, even from a two-channel or matrix source. I've only heard DPL II briefly in a store, but I would imagine that it is similar, albeit with 5 speakers rather than 7.
     
  6. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Ted: Do you use and like any of the Yamaha DSPs? I owned a Yamaha 3090 a few years back and didn't really like most of them. I pretty much stuck with regular Pro Logic and the Sci-Fi Adventure mode on action movies.

    My 2 cents on DPL II is that it is much better to my ears than ANY of the DSPs I've heard. (I haven't heard Lexicon's, but I have Sony's and Yamaha's (which are normally well thought of.)) It is just more natural sounding. The sound is spacious without being echoey (sp?) The surrounds are ran as stereo and full-range. It really was/is a big improvement over old Pro Logic (which wasn't bad for it's time.)

    Should you upgrade to a newer Yammie? IMO, if you listen to quite a bit of 2 channel stuff that you want to play back in surround, then you need to go to a dealer and spend some time listening. Compare it some of the Yammie modes you already have. Whether or not you may find it worthwhile is something only you can decide.

    For me, I do listen to a very high percentage of 2 channel surround. Once I'd heard DPL II in my main system, I went ahead and added it to my bedroom system. To my ears, DPL II was a must.
     
  7. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    I know it doesn't help you, Ted, since you already have a 1000, but for those looking to get a new Yamaha receiver, the 1200 and the 2200 have Prologic II built in.

    DJ
     
  8. Walt H

    Walt H Stunt Coordinator

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    If DPL II is a DSP mode and some Yamaha units allow you to alter existing DSP modes, then if given the exact parameters for DPL II movie/music modes, couldn't one change the parameters of one of the existing DSP modes to those of DPL II and achieve the same effect? Most people seem to not like the "Rock Concert" and "TV Sports" DSP modes which could be altered to the DPL II movie/music modes? Is this a workable solution?
     
  9. Stacy Huff

    Stacy Huff Second Unit

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    Walt,

    I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it would work. DPL II is an entirely different beast from the Yamaha DSP's, based on an entirely different algorithm. It isn't simply a matter of changing the parameters of a Yamaha DSP setting to get the same performance of DPL II. This may not be entirely correct, but I think that DPL II is more about extraction, whereas the DSP's are about synthesis.
     
  10. Ted Ross

    Ted Ross Second Unit

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    Chuck, I actually like some of the DSPs Yamaha offers(the movie theater selections)-the only one that offers full-range(as far as I can tell)is the 6-ch stereo DSP, but that is different from a true surround mode. I would like something like PLII for when I am watching cable, but for now I will have to put up with not having it. Perhaps in 6 months I will check out the RX-V2200. Thanks for the help guys!
     

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