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Does the longer version of SOUTH PACIFIC still exist? (1 Viewer)

Howard S

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Fox was used to loading their musicals with tons of color and they overloaded the color on the filters, surprising both Logan and Shamroy. These scenes could be toned down even more.
I guess if neither man was happy with the end result, and this is documented, then there is an argument to make changes in the spirit of what they wanted. However, how do assess how far to go with the changes? They might have been equally dissatisfied with any 'tampering'. Isn't it safer to try to remain faithful to what was actually released?
 

Patrick McCart

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In context with the many discussion on the HTF about OAR and edits, I wouldn't care what the director wanted/didn't want. I would want South Pacific in 100% bright technicolor -- with NO filters!
South Pacific was shot in Eastmancolor with only a few 35mm anamorphic prints being processed by Technicolor. I guess making it look like a cartoon is better than making it look like what it's supposed to...
 

Mike Frezon

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I would want South Pacific in 100% bright technicolor -- with NO filters!
Sorry, Patrick, if I said something stupid re: technicolor. I am certainly no expert on things cinema. What I SHOULD have said, simply, is I would prefer to see South Pacific without the filters.

I mis-used "Technicolor" to mean bright, accurate colors. Kinda like how many people mis-use Kleenex for facial tissue.
 

Jefferson

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Yes, Mike, i too found out the hard way
here that you have to use "exact words"

The information
about the film is certainly fascinating.
Thanks for it.
 

Greg_M

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Wasn't "South Pacific" shot in Todd-AO? The 35MM prints may have been Eastman color but I was under the impression the Roadshow print was Todd-AO
 

Patrick McCart

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Todd-AO is simply the name for the 65mm process. In other words, it's basically Super Panavision with a few differences.

The negative, like ALL color 65mm negatives, is Eastmancolor. All prints in 70mm are Eastmancolor. Dye-transfer was never used on 70mm prints, which is a real pity.
 

Greg_M

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Regarding the color filter shots:

I was always told the Fox over saturated the original negative in the processing lab and once it was done it was irreversible.
 

Peter Kline

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Color by Technicolor, I think, was basically Eastmancolor processed by Technicolor but not IB release prints. Some fillms shot in Eastmancolor were released as IB prints by Technicolor I believe as well (The Godfather?). Early Technicolor used the 3 strip process. Once the film companies owned the cameras, Eastmancolor filming became more prevalent although as I said, Technicolor did make IB release prints from those negs.
 

Doug Bull

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"What was cut from Carousel?"

The song "Blow High, Blow Low" which I think was to take place shortly before the Clambake sequence was pre-recorded by Cameron Mitchell and cut from the final release.
I'm not sure if any footage was actually shot or exists.

"Carousel" along with "Oklahoma!" have always been my favourites.
 

Greg_M

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A lot was cut from "Carousel" most of which is lost. There is a sence where Julie is in her bedroom with Billy (Right after the "If I Loved you" bench scene. I believe it dealt with his 1st hitting her*. The Blow High number and dance was cut.

"Carousel" was the first film to be shot entirely on location. But much of the location footage was reshot on a studio sound stage when the studio viewed the scenes in the new cinemascope 55 process and realized they weren't as sharp and colorful as they hoped.


The whole bench scene was actually filmed on location in Booth Bay harbor*. You'll notice when Billy tells Julie to meet him at the bench the scene was filmed outdoors, they then move to a sound stage. The carnival opening was also a mess where new scenes were lit darker to match earlier ones creating a muddy look.

I'm guessing the clambake scenes were also filmed outdoors then re-shot on a sound stage, when Billy gets into the row boat during "What's the Use of Wondering" they flash from an outdoor shot to a sound stage.


*Two of the lobby cards show these scenes - The bench scene and the bedroom scene.
 

SteveP

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CAROUSEL suffers badly from the classic bench scene (probably the apex of the entire Rodgers and Hammerstein library) being so severely shortened from the stage original-- and, in general, from most of the Maine location footage being reshot on interior sound stages.

Why cut the most vital scene in the entire piece--and then have two quite overlong numbers ("June Is Bustin' Out All Over" and "Louise's Ballet") with choreography so markedly inferior to the Agnes DeMille original?

Once again, however, Alfred Newman does a glorious job!
 

MatthewA

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Back to a possible reconstruction of SP, how much would it cost to do it on film (not just for video)?

Could the R&H organization, MGM, Fox, and/or CBS split costs?
 

Robert Harris

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There is no way to calculate the cost of a reconstruction/restoration of this film without full knowledge of precisely what elements are extant and the condition of every frame of those elements.

It would certainly not be inexpensive.
 

Ken Horowitz

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20th Century Fox holds the copyright, but MGM (via their acquisition of the Samuel Goldwyn Company's pre-1996 library) holds the theatrical and television distribution rights, and CBS (via Paramount) owns the video rights (which now makes Paramount the home video rights holder).
Fox now holds the home video rights. Those rights had been held by the CBS/Fox joint venture; when the venture was finally dissolved a few years ago, Fox got video rights to South Pacific and Oklahoma!

The Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization may also have some control over the film. Since they are responsible for preserving and promoting the R&H legacy, they ought to be interested in any restoration project.
 

Peter Kline

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The R&H Organization has made some terrible licensing and artistic decisions in recent years. First was the awful animated version of "The King & I" and then the almost as bad television film of "South Pacific". In-between add the reworking of "Flower Drum Song"
which bombed on Broadway. These projects had to be okayed by the people there. I would hope that restoration would be done by those who know about these things, not the current R&H management. Just my opinion of course.
 

Charles Ellis

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Hi, Darren! Is there any way that today's technology can correct those godawful filters? "South Pacific" has ALWAYS been unwatchable to me because of seeing so many scenes in garish blues, reds and yellows. What was Josh Logan thinking, anyway? Thank goodness he didn't do that for "Picnic" or "Bus Stop"!! BTW, John Huston flirted with using Logan's "filters" for "Reflections In A Golden Eye" but either he or Warner Brothers changed their minds back in '67 when the film was released. As a kid I always looked forward to Mitzi Gaynor's TV specials (now, that's something I'd like to see on DVD!), and it pains me that her most famous film exists in such a bad state with its stupid monochromatic filters. Looks like a job for the computer geniuses at ILM!!!
 

MatthewA

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I haven't even been able to bring myself to watch the animated version of The King and I. Let's just be glad it bombed so none of the other R&H musicals got that treatment.
 

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