Does ST, Med,Long throw matter for picture (1 Viewer)

[northshoremb]

Hello I'm new here and couldn't find the direct projector asking section.
I've tried searching on some of my golf forums without a answer and the stuff I read isn't from actual nerdy tech guys just guys guessing.
What I want to know basically is, would a med or longer throw projector have worse, same or better colors, sharpness and picture than a Short throw if specs were the same as in same DLP chip or Laser..etc? Everyone seem's to use short throw for golf simulator cause helps with no shadows from player or just don't hve the room but I'm wonder since I have 11 foot high ceiling and up to 20 or more feet of room to mount if a standard or somewhat long throw projector is clearer as long as I find one with Horizontal offset I will go that way. My screen is 13' wide so that's around 195-200" diagonal.
Just not lots and lots of used options for 1080p or 4k in short throw that produce good pi ture for under $700us so I see higher end standard throw with offsets for same or some lower that if that works would rather do that.

Also I know DLP needs bulb replacement way more frequently but also hear DLP is clearer and better colors than 3lcd or Laser. I only probably use projector say 3 hours week so that's only 150ish hours in a year which Lamp life would last long time at that use cause I'm not using for Media just few hours golf a week. Also remember us Golfers use a s reen that isn't close to the quality of a painted wall or high end Projector screens for media plus project for the most part on a bigger screen so I know all those affect quality that's why I'm asking these questions

So in short these are the questions

1: does throw make difference in color or quality of picture?

2: does it matter if a projector is labeled Gaming, Home theater, Classroom, Conference for how good colors or picture would be or does a projector labeled Conference ir large venue still have same color representation as one classified Home theater and are they just classified that way cause of Lumens needed for distance and outdoors compared to dark indoors?

3: does Horizontal Shift affect picture quality in any way like one side of screen would be sharper than the other?

4: if you are using a Computers graphics card to make a custom resolution (4:3 for my scenario) would a 1920x1200 native res be just as clear or clearer than 1920x1080p HD native res seeing as there is actually more than 1080pixels vertical?

5: I've been on projectorcentral a lot looking at all these Native Res and accepted video modes so would a 1080p Native with 1080p max accepted show save Pic or quality as a 1080p native with a 4k accepted video feed? Just don't know if since it accepts video feed of 4k but 1080p native does that just scale and no visible video difference?

6: is contrast ratio on projector central even useful cause I see $4000 projectors say 3000:1 and then I'll see a $600 brand name projector say 30,000:1

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

1. Generally, I'd say short throw (and especially ultra ST) tends to compromise PQ in terms of geometry and evenness of the image (for sharpness, etc)... probably not so much in terms of color and such. Too long a throw would probably mean dimmer image (though that's really more about installation than choice of PJ). UST generally tries to deal w/ geometry issues by massaging the image to look right in terms of geometry, but compromises the image to do so (losing sharpness, details, likely yielding some artifacts, etc).

2. Generally, for serious HT use, I'd avoid the PJs designed for gaming, classroom, conference and other such targets... though it's possible the branding for some of them, particularly gaming, is more just branding and may not mean actual compromise of quality for HT usage -- they might simply have an additional gaming mode desirable for gaming uses.

3. Shifting *can* affect PQ... but that's true of just about anything else in the PJ setup process. Unless the reviews note some issues w/ the shifting results on a PJ, I wouldn't worry about that. Certainly, there are also gonna be some variance in actual PJ units due to QC, etc since there's quite a lot of mechanical parts, especially if the PJ's lens system isn't fully manual only (and offers advanced features like lens memory and such).

4. Not sure what you really trying to do w/ that. AFAIK, vast majority of PJs designed for HT use would not handle 1920x1200 res.

5. Some 4K PJs use 1080p native chips and do e-shift to yield effective 4K images (or something close enough to 4K). IF you want native 4K, those PJs are generally far substantially more expensive. Truth is you probably won't notice much, if any, real diff between e-shift 4K and native 4K unless your target FOV will be far larger than what most people use for FP setup. e-shift 4K is generally good enough unless you have eagle eyes or something, hehheh...

6. I haven't checked PJ Central is a while (probably more than a year), but last time I checked, they still didn't seem to have some well standardized way to compare contrast ratios between PJs they reviewed. You certainly canNOT use the manufacturers' stated/claimed specs for comparison -- that will just involve waaaay too much marketing hype and (hyper)bias.

_Man_

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

So... what's your budget for this PJ?

IF you can spend say $3-5K, one of the Epson options may be your best bet... either the LS12000 laser (though it can't do 3D) or maybe just the 5050UB, which is an excellent value for $2.4K right now -- that's what I went w/ ~4 years ago. Not too sure how they will fair though for your target image size of nearly 200" diagonal...

IMHO, don't worry about a PJ being lamp-based. IF you use it enough to need very frequent lamp replacements (like once a year), you're probably also gonna kill the laser PJ w/in say 5 years, LOL. Of course, if you're the sort who will just replace the PJ every few years anyway...

_Man_

 

[Nathan_H]

Hello I'm new here and couldn't find the direct projector asking section.
I've tried searching on some of my golf forums without a answer and the stuff I read isn't from actual nerdy tech guys just guys guessing.
What I want to know basically is, would a med or longer throw projector have worse, same or better colors, sharpness and picture than a Short throw if specs were the same as in same DLP chip or Laser..etc? Everyone seem's to use short throw for golf simulator cause helps with no shadows from player or just don't hve the room but I'm wonder since I have 11 foot high ceiling and up to 20 or more feet of room to mount if a standard or somewhat long throw projector is clearer as long as I find one with Horizontal offset I will go that way. My screen is 13' wide so that's around 195-200" diagonal.
Just not lots and lots of used options for 1080p or 4k in short throw that produce good pi ture for under $700us so I see higher end standard throw with offsets for same or some lower that if that works would rather do that.

Also I know DLP needs bulb replacement way more frequently but also hear DLP is clearer and better colors than 3lcd or Laser. I only probably use projector say 3 hours week so that's only 150ish hours in a year which Lamp life would last long time at that use cause I'm not using for Media just few hours golf a week. Also remember us Golfers use a s reen that isn't close to the quality of a painted wall or high end Projector screens for media plus project for the most part on a bigger screen so I know all those affect quality that's why I'm asking these questions

So in short these are the questions

1: does throw make difference in color or quality of picture?

2: does it matter if a projector is labeled Gaming, Home theater, Classroom, Conference for how good colors or picture would be or does a projector labeled Conference ir large venue still have same color representation as one classified Home theater and are they just classified that way cause of Lumens needed for distance and outdoors compared to dark indoors?

3: does Horizontal Shift affect picture quality in any way like one side of screen would be sharper than the other?

4: if you are using a Computers graphics card to make a custom resolution (4:3 for my scenario) would a 1920x1200 native res be just as clear or clearer than 1920x1080p HD native res seeing as there is actually more than 1080pixels vertical?

5: I've been on projectorcentral a lot looking at all these Native Res and accepted video modes so would a 1080p Native with 1080p max accepted show save Pic or quality as a 1080p native with a 4k accepted video feed? Just don't know if since it accepts video feed of 4k but 1080p native does that just scale and no visible video difference?

6: is contrast ratio on projector central even useful cause I see $4000 projectors say 3000:1 and then I'll see a $600 brand name projector say 30,000:1

1. The throw technology does not inherently make a difference in this area, but the actual existing projectors using short throw do have differences here. For example, most short throw projectors are based on single chip DLP solutions which have less contrast than some of the LCOS technologies that are primarily in use in longer throw projectors.

2. Often but not always projectors labeled for Home Theater are likely to prioritize accuracy over output. But this is not always the case, so looking at individual projector details (via objective third party measurements like at Projector Central) is the key.

3. OPTICAL lens shift typically has little (sometimes zero) impact on image quality. DIGITAL image shift like keystone correction and automatic settings to square an image will reduce image resolution.

4. In most cases, 1:1 pixel mapping is going to be sharpest.

5. Usually if you get up close, there is a visual difference.....and often that is not very visible from a normal seating distance.

6. The MEASURED contrast numbers in the REVIEWS are useful. The manufacturer's claims seldom relate to reality.

You didn't ask, but the screen size, gain, and output of the projector are actually the first thing to consider before any of the above items. If the projector can't light up a screen to industry standard illumination, then the rest of these factors doesn't matter.

How to Choose A Screen Size

This is way more important (and slightly more complicated) than you think.

hometheater.substack.com

Use the Projector Central throw calculator, and make sure the projector with your screen size (and gain) can reach more than 30ftl if you are interested in HDR (4K UHD) content.

 

[Nathan_H]

My screen is 13' wide so that's around 195-200" diagonal.
Just not lots and lots of used options for 1080p or 4k in short throw that produce good pi ture for under $700us so I see higher end standard throw with offsets for same or some lower that if that works would rather do that.

A screen that size needs a lot of light to light it up correctly.

A normal JVC, Sony, Epson, or one of the endless cheap DLP projectors online will not have enough light output to properly light up a screen that large.

You will need to consider something like the Epson PowerLite L610U Projector which is 7000 ANSI lumens. It was $3,500 when it was new but these days can be found for under $1,000 on the used market. It is laser based so as long as the laser only has a few thousand hours on it, it should have enough life left to be useful for years to come. When new, with a 1.0 gain screen (normal solid material) it can reach 40ftl of output at that size. Since you will be buying used, it will be more like 30ftl. Perfect place to start.

You don't say what type of screen you have, but a 200" diagonal screen is 8 feet tall, so in most homes that would not leave space for a center channel speaker. So perhaps you are going to use an acoustically transparent screen?

If that is the case, the gain will be more like .7, so you will be on the low end of what is acceptably bright for that screen size even with that projector.

See the attached files for details specific to your screen size and that one projector.

Then, pay close attention to other projector options you consider. If they have less than 7000 ANSI lumens (certified by testing, not just what the manufacturer claims) you will not have enough light for your screen size.

Also I know DLP needs bulb replacement way more frequently but also hear DLP is clearer and better colors than 3lcd or Laser.

DLP is an imaging chip, like LCOS and LCD and DILA.

Laser is a light source, like a lamp.

Depending on how a particular technology is implemented, laser can look better than lamp, or lamp can look better than laser.

Depending on how a particular technology is implemented, DLP may be sharper that the other imaging chips, or LCOS may have more accurate and larger color gamut coverage, or LCD may have the best combination of performance features.

In other words, you will want to pay attention to the particular output of the projector you are considering, make sure you look at things in your budget, and then evaluate just those specific models for the other criteria that matters to you.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I wonder... are you really that stuck on using 200" screen? Is it really such a great screen that you shouldn't just replace it w/ something smaller and more sensible perhaps?

Sounds like you're probably pretty new to FP setup... so really, you probably don't need something quite that large to be impressed methinks.

You could also just use mattes and maybe curtains to reduce the effective screen size to suit a good, consumer grade, HT PJ until there's something powerful enough someday... but really, that might always be hard to find...

_Man_

 

[northshoremb]

I wonder... are you really that stuck on using 200" screen? Is it really such a great screen that you shouldn't just replace it w/ something smaller and more sensible perhaps?

Sounds like you're probably pretty new to FP setup... so really, you probably don't need something quite that large to be impressed methinks.

You could also just use mattes and maybe curtains to reduce the effective screen size to suit a good, consumer grade, HT PJ until there's something powerful enough someday... but really, that might always be hard to find...

_Man_

It's for my golf simulator so yes need that size. My screen is 15' wide with 14' usable

 

[Nathan_H]

All the new tech for UST is great for the projector market but to me it seems like long or standard throw is taking a back seat. Why don't we have ALPD 4, tri-laser projector standard throw projectors? Is there a technical difficulty to making this more mainstream?

It will be interesting to see what the future holds but for now, there are high powered long throw projectors with lots of lumens, but most people don't like them because they have poor contrast -- like the UST projectors -- or they are particularly expensive. But hopefully there will be a revolution in the marketplace sooner or later. JVC revolutionized the long throw market in 2007. We need a similar disruption in the front projection space. It seemed like UST might be it, but so far the performance hasn't been better than a basic LCD projector in terms of contrast and black level.