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Does Kino understand stereo sound?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by John Morgan, May 15, 2019.

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  1. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    Why do I suspect that those who refuse to buy films not in stereo would be more than happy to buy mono films remastered in stereo sound? They've invested all that money into their home theater sound systems and they want their money's worth, dammit! :) I mean films like My Dinner With Andre and Executive Suite would be so much more awesome in 5.1 sound, right?
     
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  2. TJPC

    TJPC Cinematographer

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    I am probably speaking heresy here, but I rarely notice the quality of the sound on a Blu ray at all, unless I can’t hear the dialogue. If l am listening to a CD, on earphones, stereo is certainly important, but even with my fairly decent sound system in my HT, unless the sound effect is in the back speakers or sweeps across loudly, I tend not to notice. It is galling however when the movie was originally in stereo, that is available, and not on the disc.
     
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  3. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    I think I speak for most posters here when I say that we'd like the best channel configuration that was available when the movie was released. Obviously this will have to be achieved within the limits of the sound formats available in a home theater so 5.1 will have to do for most movies released with 6-track magnetic sound.

    Not many people here always want all of their video and audio capabilities being used to the max and imo insisting on 5.1 sound instead of mono is not that much different than changing the aspect ratio of a movie to fit the screen. That being said with soundtracks we have the luxury to have one track on the disc that is as close as possible to the original and also another track with a modern reinterpretation in 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.4 or whatever. No problem to go crazy with the number of channels if we get the original mix, too.
     
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  4. rdimucci

    rdimucci Stunt Coordinator

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    There's a reason that Kino rarely mentions the sound configuration on their disc packaging, and I suspect it's because they neither know nor care what it is. So what if earlier releases were 5.1? If you're now issuing a mono Blu-ray, why not just proudly say so on your package. Surely the consumer deserves that much information before buying. But Kino disagrees.

    As for waiting for reviews, some reviewers won't hazard a guess as to the sound configuration ("The sound is full and dialogue is easy to hear."). Or, two reviewers will differ in the sound they hear, with one hearing stereo, the other not. Or, you get the worthless information that the disc is "in 2.0 sound," with no clue as to whether that means dual-channel mono, front stereo only, or 2-channel matrixed surround sound.
     
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  5. john a hunter

    john a hunter Screenwriter

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    That not much help.
    One would think that any sensible business model would include presenting your product in its best light.
    Both these titles have not much to recommend them save their PQ and SQ as Cinerama roadshows.
    Not to exploit that is just plain silly .
     
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  6. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    I have a TV recording of Custer and it comes from a channel that airs stereo when available but unfortunately Custer was only aired in dual mono. I believe the DVD was mono too so it looks like Kino could only have worked from some 6 track original material to make this available with multichannel sound which they probably considered cost-prohbitive. As for exploiting the strengths of cinerama if you look at the picture quality of Custer I would not really call it a revelation so the picture and sound quality may both be considered to be rather disappointing.
     
  7. Message #47 of 70 May 23, 2019
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
    Brent Reid

    Brent Reid Supporting Actor

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    Kino are one of my favourite home video labels and despite living in the UK, I have well over 200 of their BDs and DVDs. However, though they usually put more effort and expense into their releases than the likes of barebones Olive, Kino are no Criterion and have nearly always released whatever masters are most readily and cheaply to hand. For instance, if there are only PAL masters of European restorations or extras, Kino use them directly, rather than shell out for new NTSC ones. Many, perhaps more than half, of all their silent film DVDs are particularly compromised by being mastered in this way. And now they plan to release unrestored versions of Hitchcock's British silent films, when the BFI's brilliant restorations are sitting idle in the vaults.

    Kino have a longstanding and clearly successful business model, based on quantity but not always absolute quality, and don't look like changing anytime soon. Though I find them occasionally frustrating, overall I love what they do, and long may they continue.
     
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  8. Bryan Tuck

    Bryan Tuck Screenwriter

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    Most of their packages have the old "DTS" logo on the back, even though the format on the disc is usually DTS-HD Master, which makes me wonder if they even know what the difference is there (or even how they can legally use the logo for a format that's technically not on the disc).

    To be honest, Kino's quality issues wouldn't bother me so much if they weren't so rude to their customers. They are often arrogant, condescending, and seemingly put out that anyone might point out some avoidable issues with their products.

    Of course, sometimes customers could be a little more polite, too, but Kino has just rubbed me the wrong way with how they've responded to certain things recently.
     
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  9. Worth

    Worth Cinematographer

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    Well, technically it's not "wrong", as a standard DTS track is embedded within a DTS-HD Master track.
     
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  10. Bryan Tuck

    Bryan Tuck Screenwriter

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    Fair enough, but it still seems like an odd choice.
     
  11. B-ROLL

    B-ROLL Cinematographer

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    The previous KINO evangelist that posted here under the moniker of Mr. Lime said they have to pay a fee per layer for DTS royalties. I suspect they have an arrangement with DTS for their encoding and it makes it easier to manage.

    Of course if the sound is on oft used and not well kept wax cylinders it probably won't sound much better if it were to be a different encoding format...
     
  12. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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    Interesting. So even though they encode in full DTS-HD Master Audio they don't have to pay the extra fee if they don't print it on the label. Kind of like when some movies back in the 1980s were actually encoded in Dolby Stereo on the film prints but not advertised as such to avoid the Dolby licensing fee.
     
  13. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    Let's hope Kino manage to produce stereo tracks for THE LAST VALLEY. It was about a year ago that they said they had the rights but that the elements were in very poor shape.
     
  14. DP 70

    DP 70 Supporting Actor

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    I would love to see The Last Valley on Blu ray. Bradford have a slightly faded 70mm print but the 6 track sounds great.
     
  15. Paul Rossen

    Paul Rossen Supporting Actor

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    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a stereo version from Kino. But the Barry score is magnificent as is the film. One can only hope one day....

    Since this is a thread on Kino stereo tracks has anyone compared the TT version of Judgment at Nuremberg with the Kino version?
     
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  16. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    It's unlikely as the elements (as Kino said) are in very poor shape. Who's going to restore it? Kino Lorber? Unlikely. But if they can get a good transfer, I'll take it in mono gladly!
     
  17. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    The Last Valley is a very underrated movie and in my opinion one of the few really good movies released in Cinerama, too bad that it tanked at the box office.

    A satisfactory Blu-ray could be produced by just working with remaining prints as the main source, that includes the production of a multichannel soundtrack.

    The same has been done with a 70mm print of Savage Pampas, stills taken from in70mm.com:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    The Last Valley was only promoted as "On our Giant Cinerama screen" by Cinerama theatres. Many other films were promoted like this including the Gone With the Wind re-release.

    I'm guessing Kino only gets titles from 35mm not 70mm.
     
  19. Paul Rossen

    Paul Rossen Supporting Actor

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  20. john a hunter

    john a hunter Screenwriter

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    It was Todd AO and in London did not open in Cinerama but at the Leicester Sq Theatre.
    It later moved to the Casino Cinerama which by then was showing anything it could in 70.
    Given that The Last Valley was produced by the Cinerama Releasing Co,they obviously decided in this release pattern and played down a Cinerama connection.
    I suppose you could argue that it was not a"Cinerama movie"but in essence it was and a victim of the times .
     
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