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Does Kino understand stereo sound?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by John Morgan, May 15, 2019.

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  1. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    They actually recorded a new commentary track for Camp Nowhere, but still couldn’t get the sound right after the Mill Creek disc was already messed up! I don’t even know what would have caused the sound to turn out that way in the first place, but SOMEBODY should have caught it. To go ahead and release it that way anyways without even an explanation gives the impression that someone doesn’t know what they’re doing. Kino has put out some great releases, but to make this mistake and make it that many times is still inexcusable.
     
  2. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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    Yeah, Kino is notorious for botched soundtracks whether or not it is their fault. The Falcon and the Snowman is another Dolby Stereo movie that is mono on the Kino Blu-ray but stereo on digital platforms. I can't even count how many times Kino has released Blu-rays with 2.0 mixdowns of movies that were 5.1 on the DVD. There is one boutique label that is fussy about soundtrack elements and will actually turn down transfers that don't have the proper elements. They are also known for their isolated music tracks!
     
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  3. Todd Stout

    Todd Stout Screenwriter

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    I watched the Olive Films Blu-ray of the Charles Bronson film "Kinjite Forbidden Subjects" last night. The fidelity was decent for a movie from 1989 but it was definitely mono. Watching the end credits confirmed that the sound was Ultra-Stereo. My old MGM DVD is stereo so I assume the Ultra-Stereo mix carried over.
     
  4. revgen

    revgen Screenwriter

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    That's the advantage of releasing four titles a month.

    Kino Lorber is releasing 25 titles this month.
     
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  5. Conrad_SSS

    Conrad_SSS Second Unit

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    You hit the nail on the head.

    The only excuse for not including stereo audio for a stereo film, is if the original audio no longer exists in any usable form.
    This is unfortunately frequent when it comes to films from the 50s.

    In those cases, one can overlook such situations, assuming that all nooks and crannies were explored to try and deliver the best and most authentic audio as originally intended.
     
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  6. rsmithjr

    rsmithjr Screenwriter

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    I don't have an absolute rule about refusing to buy something that isn't in stereo when it should be.

    In practice, however, it is often the decisive factor for me. I even buy things I barely want if the reviews are especially positive about the stereo sound.
     
  7. Message #27 of 70 May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    Bryan Tuck

    Bryan Tuck Screenwriter

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    Elements do go missing, but in the case of a two-channel stereo film that's been released that way on VHS, LD, and DVD, and then is suddenly mono on Blu-ray, there's probably a much simpler explanation.

    I honestly think the stereo tracks were accidentally centered at some point during the import, export, or encode stage. It's an easy mistake to make, but also ridiculously easy to catch.
     
  8. Spencer Draper

    Spencer Draper Stunt Coordinator

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    This is surprisingly becoming more of an issue. Usually it’s the other way round with countless films losing their original mono and stereo tracks to little or no outcry in favor of most often horrendous remixes.

    But now we have catalog titles losing their discrete sound with no one saying very much. Worst of all is the roadshow 70mm epics with only 2.0 tracks presumably being from the original Laserdisc releases where matrixed Dolby ProLogic was the only option before discrete was available on video.

    The one film I noticed most missing it’s 5.1 was the recent Kino release of The Crucible which got great reviews everywhere but only has 2.0 hdma. I thought to myself wait a minute wasn’t that a common Laserdisc with thx certification and ac3? Sure enough I picked up a copy for a dollar and it has ac3 and the same matrixed 2.0 as the Kino.

    It is partially studios providing wrong or lesser sources but also can be the label not doing proper research or not caring to. Fortunately most labels try to do the best they can with what they have access to. However I really have come to dislike the typical Kino practices and releases for being of poor encodes compared to others and generally lacking in overall attention to detail. I’ve lost count of the number of Kino discs I’ve either replaced due to someone else doing the same master much better or passed on due to the same reason. And then there’s what happened with their handling of the Leone titles which was completely avoidable.
     
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  9. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    Cinema has always been about the visuals more than what they sound like for me. As long as I can understand what's being said (I don't give a rat's arse about how explosions, car crashes, lousy film scores from supherhero movies etc. sound), I'm good. Of course, I love the 4.0 directional film sound from Fox's CinemaScope period (hate the 5.1 remixes) but if they're in mono, it's not a dealbreaker. A bad movie is a bad movie and a pristine sound design isn't going to make it a good movie. If I'm watching a great film like The Godfather, On The Waterfront or Bonnie And Clyde, I get so wrapped up in the story that I don't even think about the sound as long as it's clear and I can understand what's being said.

    But hey, that's just me and we all have our own little peccadilloes about the movies we watch. I actually know some people who refuse to buy a film if the subtitles are in yellow instead of white. :) It takes all kinds.
     
  10. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    I am surprised at a certain indifference to mono sound when stereo has existed in previous home video incarnations. Of course mono will have to do if nothing else is available but so will DVD when there is no Blu-ray.

    With that beng said it should be possible to work with what has been released previously in most cases.

    As for the case of Kino it is hard to believe that with their huge number of releases they would have a harder time getting studios to make a multichannel or stereo soundtrack available than a smaller label. It would be interesting to hear from them first hand what the issue was for certain movies or if for most titles they have a policy to just work with whatever they get, mono or not.
     
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  11. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    I'm not, as most people are what Thomas T has described in this post. That doesn't mean some of us are happy about no stereo, but with the status of physical media market in a precarious situation , there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. Sure, the studios have failed us with some of these mono audio tracks, but except for a small segment of film buffs, not many of us are going to scream bloody murder about that failure. Furthermore, there aren't isn't a large segment of film buffs to begin with that is actually buying discs which is why the physical media market is as fragmented as it is.
     
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  12. Vincent_P

    Vincent_P Cinematographer

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    I don't buy the suggestion that we should just accept what's being released, warts and all, because of the "precarious market situation" or whatever. If Kino wasn't turning a profit, they wouldn't be releasing all these titles. Expecting these companies to do some actual QC and know that what they are releasing is correct is not too much to ask for.

    Vincent
     
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  13. Message #33 of 70 May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    You or anybody else don't have to accept what's being released so you are free to protest and correct the situation any way you prefer to do so. Just don't expect other people to feel that same commitment to rectify those audio mistakes. I'm just stating my perception that might be the reality. I wish it wasn't so, but it appears to be what's happening as only a few of us are really expressing their displeasure to those audio glitches. This audio problem doesn't seem to be resonating with the majority of us like it was with the incorrect OAR back in the glory days of DVD/BD.
     
  14. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    With the high volume of releases I believe Kino has far more failures than success with most titles.
    I'm sure overall they are making a profit, but the needle is slightly above breaking even if you ask me. The sales they have a few times a year is just more proof of this. If they were doing great business on the number of units pushed - BD titles, you would certainly see a lot more care being put into how the release is treated.

    I'm thankful they are around. I have always been in the "something is better than nothing" mindset. I will continue to support them until they stop releasing Blu-Ray titles.
     
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  15. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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  16. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    Custer of the West and Krakatoa East of Java were released in 70mm 6-track stereo sound for the Cinerama roadshow but only mono on the Blu-ray's. I mentioned that they would have sold a lot more copies if they had the stereo tracks and Kino just laughed.
     
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  17. john a hunter

    john a hunter Screenwriter

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    Which is why Kino missed the sale of both titles to me!
     
  18. Vincent_P

    Vincent_P Cinematographer

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    YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL THEY RELEASED THEM AT ALL, INGRATE!!!

    ;)

    Vincent
     
  19. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I’m not saying this in defense of releasing them without their original stereo tracks, but just curious: approximately how many copies of each of those two titles do you think Kino has sold to date, and how many more do you think they would have sold if they had included stereo audio instead of mono?
     
  20. Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    My guess, maybe 250/20.
     

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