Does DTS actually sound better than DD 5.1? (1 Viewer)

[Julian Reville]

They can both sound very good, but I just love it when the little dts logo on my DSP-A1 lights up.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

If you want a good example, Saving Private Ryan DD vs the full bitrate DTS. No question, the DTS version sounds better.

The DTS mix has also been cooked for DTS' strengths. DQd on those grounds from a fair comparison

 

[Reginald Trent]

Quote:

The DTS mix has also been cooked for DTS' strengths. DQd on those grounds from a fair comparison.
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Jeff please explain what you mean by COOKED?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

What I mean is essentially cheating

Speilburg has a HUGE stake in DTS, so he always makes sure that his movies sound best in DTS.

SPR DTS is a different mix from the DD version, steered toward DTS' strong points.

 

[greg_t]

So are we only talking SPR dts here, or are we talking about all dts releases? Why is Dolby not "cooked" to suit it's strengths?

 

[Reginald Trent]

Quote:

What I mean is essentially cheating

Speilburg has a HUGE stake in DTS, so he always makes sure that his movies sound best in DTS.
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One could also use your statement to argue Spielberg takes greater care (Quality control) to ensure his DTS products sound as good as possible.

 

[StevenB]

ok, my $.02

DTS in my opinion is a MUCH more dynamic use of audio that just DD. As stated, compression plays a crucial role. On the same token, so does your audio system. With a low-end receiver or separates and low-end speakers, you probably wont notice the difference. However, if you are using mid to high-end equipment, the difference in sound between DD and DTS is inevitable, even from a non-audiophile's ears. DTS blows it out of the water. Much more envelopment in sound as well as dynamics involved.
Steve
P.S. DTS also rules over THX imo, but Lucas' use of marketing would have you believe otherwise. Another topic for another day.....

 

[LaMarcus]

Well, I've always had more respect for a dvd with dts, it just seems to be more advanced & up to date.

I personally have noticed that when I play a DD dvd with my volme at 30 I have to turn it down to 27 when I put a DTS dvd in right after it.

The first time it happened I thought I accidently turned the volume up but it was the disc. For the DD dvd to sound as loud as the DTS dvd I would have to turn it up to 33. And on my system that 3 digit difference is big.

I always wondered if that was only on mine system. Has nobody else experianced this? I always watch DVDs with my volume on 30 and that is not too loud for my girlfriend, but DTS dvd's I always have to turn it down by 3, with out fail.

 

[Adam Barratt]

I personally have noticed that when I play a DD dvd with my volme at 30 I have to turn it down to 27 when I put a DTS dvd in right after it.

The first time it happened I thought I accidently turned the volume up but it was the disc. For the DD dvd to sound as loud as the DTS dvd I would have to turn it up to 33. And on my system that 3 digit difference is big.

I always wondered if that was only on mine system. Has nobody else experianced this? I always watch DVDs with my volume on 30 and that is not too loud for my girlfriend, but DTS dvd's I always have to turn it down by 3, with out fail.

This is because most DTS soundtracks are played back 4dB or more louder than their Dolby Digital counterparts. Louder is always perceived as better, which makes direct comparisons of the two formats extremely difficult, even if both are present on the same disc.

Adam

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

Also, I seem to remember something about some of the old DTS tracks having an increased sub track (+3 dB) when compared to the DD track, after normalization of the volumes. Hence, the DTS was perceived as "fuller". Which was more accurate I don't know, but again it would make the comparison irrelevant since it would be a matter of mixing vs. the format itself.

But I will repeat what I said earlier, but in another way: The observation that lots of el crappo DD 5.1 tracks exist is not evidence that DD 5.1 is inherently inferior. Just about anyone can encode a DD 5.1 track, but you can't do this with DTS AFAIK. I was under the impression that the DTS tracks have to be done by DTS, no?

If this true then it's a case of Garbage In Garbage Out. A lot of poor DD 5.1 tracks exist because they were not done properly in the first place.

Now it's true that DVDs with both DD 5.1 and DTS usually have well-done DD 5.1, but as everyone has said earlier, this does not guarantee that DD 5.1 and DTS were done even close to identically.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Jeff, If the DTS SPR is "cooked" to make it sound better then please tell me why the LOW BITRATE dolby digital on the LaserDisc sounds noticably better than either the DD or DTS DVD?

The best reliable comparison of the two codecs is independantly produced DVD-A discs with compatability tracks in both DD and DTS.

The difference between the two is mode pronounced in music though.

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

DTS encoders have been available outside the DTS labs for about 2 years. Anyone can make a DTS track without having to send the tapes to DTS. For $2000 you can buy DTS DVD encoding software from Minnetonka. (The CD-only version is just $500.)

Early DTS tracks had a problem with the rear channels being 3 dB too loud. There's a 3 dB difference between the rear channel levels for theatrical and home use, and DTS didn't know that.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Just about anyone can encode a DD 5.1 track, but you can't do this with DTS AFAIK. I was under the impression that the DTS tracks have to be done by DTS, no?

Nope, DTS, realizing that studios weren't going to pay their mastering fees on a lot of titles developed encoding software to sell. That's why there's been so many complaints that many DTS mixes sound just like DD, the studios encode from the same master instead of DTS' cooked one.

This is also why there are tons of DTS bootlegs showing up, the pirates record the 5.1 DD output and re-encode it as DTS

Bottom line- All things being equal, the ACTUAL difference is miniscule at best between the 2 formats, so there's no reason to fight over it.

 

[Doug_H]

How many times in this thread has someone said "I only hear a subtle difference" then gone on to say like better clarity, dynamics, mids, ETC. Isn't that what this hobby is all about. Everyones ear is different and while you may hear only a subtle difference some of us can hear a huge difference AT TIMES.

I don't care if they can both sound exactly the same under XYZ conditions... I don't care if the DTS track is cooked... The bottom line is that the DTS track generally sounds better (even if it is a subtle difference)and as much as we all spend on our systems to get very subtle gains from cables, line conditioners and any number of other things why wouldn't you want the best out of the media you play. It isn't like getting the DTS track is an expensive upgrade. If this were true of the DD tracks I would wave their flag from the top of my tower but for now the DTS flag remains.

(try's to remember the lava survival tip from Southpark... duck and cover... yes that's it..duck and cover)

 

[Rachael B]

I used to think that DTS was categorically better. The STAR WARS PHANTOM MENACE LD changed my mind about that! It's what you take to the codec that counts.

 

[David Judah]

Jeff,

You seem to have the market cornered on bad information about DTS.

1. They don't cook the soundtracks. As Wayne mentioned, some early titles were 3 db too hot in the surrounds because they weren't adjusting for home theater release, but that hasn't been an issue for quite awhile.

2. Dreamworks did use seperate mixes for the DTS & DD soundtracks of SPR, but DTS had nothing to do with that decision.

3. If by cooked you mean straying from the original, then I think you could make a far better case that DD soundtracks are cooked more often than DTS soundtracks.
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This thread brings back memories of the many DTS vs. DD threads that littered this Forum a few years ago. Now, with the small taste of lossless compressed, multi-channel music we have experienced with SACD & DVD-A, and the hope that similiar technology could be realized when HD-DVD is developed, hopefully these discussions about lossy compression schemes will be relegated to nostalgic memories of the early days of this Forum.

DJ

 

[Philip Hamm]

It really depends on how demanding the material is. Multichannel music is much more demanding than most movie soundtracks. There are some DVD-A discs with both DD and DTS compatability tracks which were not made by DTS inc. On these discs the DTS track sounds dramatically better than the DD track.

Jeff's statement that DTS has "cooked" mixes is nothing but supposition supported by no facts at all whatsoever.

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

OK. Didn't know that DTS encoding was now available for $2000 US. Pretty reasonable if you ask me. I just hope not too many crapola DTS tracks show up, like the many crapola DD5.1 tracks.
To be quite honest, I don't even really care all that much in the greater scheme of things. I would happier to see my local theatres get better sets of speakers for the small-budget movies which have actually spent the time to create a reasonable DD 5.1 track. If I want to go to see Sweet Hereafter or whatever, I'm almost guaranteed lousy sound, because supposedly the people who watch these types of movies don't care about sound and thus the theatres don't upgrade the equipment. And unfortunately, to a certain extent, sometimes this is true. :frowning:

 

[Lewis Besze]

Jeff, If the DTS SPR is "cooked" to make it sound better then please tell me why the LOW BITRATE dolby digital on the LaserDisc sounds noticably better than either the DD or DTS DVD?

Depends who you ask.
I thought that the LD had a smoother top end,a beefier lowend.
While it's obvious that the two DD tracks were sourced from 2 different masters[I have no idea why!],the lower bit rate DD actually rolls off the highs gradually above 15khz,which can account for the "smooth" top end,the low end however can't be bit rate affected.
I personaly preffer the DTS DVD.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

If DTS didn't cook the mixes, they wouldn't be saying

"DTS has never altered a soundtrack without director's approval" (paraphrase)

They would be saying "DTS has never altered a soundtrack in the slightest we were given to compress"

Miramax uses the same language to justify butchering Hong Kong movies.