Does anyone just use mains, with no sub???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Michael_UK, Sep 19, 2001.

  1. Michael_UK

    Michael_UK Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a set of Mission M73 floor standing mains in my bedroom HT, The room is quite small being 10.5 ft by 10.5 foot by 7 ft and I absolutly love the sound they give out, bass output seems surprisingly strong, I already have to turn the bass level on my amp down two notches below zero otherwise the bassy sceenes can become a bit heavy over the mid/high parts of the films.
    I can understand some rooms which are big need good subwoofers to fill the room with rich bass.
    Does anyone else just use full range mains and no sub?
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    In my previous setup, I had it that way. Large mains with no sub. I have found, in general (note, I did not say in every case), a system with a sub just performs better on the low end, overall. Afterall, that is the point of a sub.
    The difference comes when you start talking about music. I tend to prefer music with the sub off running the mains full range, as I am not always looking for redicuously low bass for most music, nor does music tend to have a dedicated LFE track.
    IMO, it always comes down to what sounds good to you.
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  3. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Mike. I used to run my system with no sub when I had my system in my bedroom as well. I have PSB Goldi's and they filled up my 12x16 room quite well for music as well as movies. The question is how big is your room(you already stated that), what type of source material do you listen to or watch and how much bass do you need inorder to feel connected to whatever you're enjoying at the time.
    If you're happy with the sound and feel connected to what your watching or listening too, stay with it. However, if you get a bigger room I suggest that you make plans to experiment with a sub. Of course some will say that your missing out on loads of LFE (Low frequency information) by not having a subwoofer and in some cases you may be missing some information but it's all relative and remember if you feel that you're experiencing good quality bass from you mains then invest in something else like room treatment or whatever part of your system needs a little tweaking.
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  4. Joe R

    Joe R Auditioning

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    I'm also running this type of setup.Ihave no problems with bass.
     
  5. Don Beverly

    Don Beverly Extra

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    I would compare lack of subwoofer to smaller tv screen vs.
    larger screen, you still enjoy the experience but miss out on the "wow" factor.
    My mains will get down to 30khz but for action movies and realistic "you are there" musical scores, you'll need a woofer that goes below that.
    E-mail the supporters of this forum for great input on the subject. "SVS"
     
  6. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Don. I would also make that comparison if I were using a system composed of bookshelf speakers. However, when using bass capable floorstanders, it's not as dramatic a difference as you put it. Is their a difference when using a subwoofer? Yes. How much of a difference depends on not only the subwoofer but the room size and the acoustics of the room, how loud or low you want to experience the source material and if we look at the thread poster he said that he's happy with the amount of bass he's getting at the moment. How much bass and how low you want to go is all in the EARS of the beholder, so in your system, maybe the difference was like the comparison of the smaller TV to the larger TV but since you haven't been to Mike's house and heard his system you can only make judgments based on your equipment, your room and any other system you may have heard.
    However for now. Mike is happy with his bass.
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  7. Chad Isaacs

    Chad Isaacs Supporting Actor

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    When I bought my Klipsch sf-2 I had already sold my first sub and was waiting for my svs.It sounded good,I started to wonder if I even needed the SVS.
    Got it here,hooked it up and WOW before I just had a small 8" infinity,the towers with dual 6 1/2 drivers were putting out more than the infinity but add that to the svs....WOW
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  8. Marty M

    Marty M Cinematographer

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    I was using my Paradigm Monitor 7's for about 6 months without a sub. Definitely not need for music, but the sub really filled out the bass for movies.
     
  9. Jake T

    Jake T Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm using my Dynaudio 122's without a sub right now. The go down to 41Hz so they have plenty of bass. I am looking into subs right now though for that extra kick on movies.
    My HT is in my basement and it completely opens up on the left in front of and behind the seating position, so I have lots of room to fill.
    As John said it's all a matter of taste.
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  10. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    I'm sure that many of us can say that we are missing out on some information due to one aspect of our system or another due to a piece of equipment that may not be up to snuff. I think that Mike(the original poster)might benefit more from acoustically treating his room since it is so small. It's nice to get the equipment first but the best way in my opinion is to find out how your room behaves across the spectrum of sound and try to address the problem areas as best as one could. The fact that he's getting a hefty amount of bass energy to the point that he has to turn it down is reason enough to think that he maynot be getting an acurate picture of his bass and he may be suffering from standing waves or improperly positioned speakers. So getting a sub may be the least of his problems actually.
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  11. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    I'm sure that many of us can say that we are missing out on some information due to one aspect of our system or another due to a piece of equipment that may not be up to snuff. I think that Mike(the original poster)might benefit more from acoustically treating his room since it is so small. It's nice to get the equipment first but the best way in my opinion is to find out how your room behaves across the spectrum of sound and try to address the problem areas as best as one could. The fact that he's getting a hefty amount of bass energy to the point that he has to turn it down is reason enough to think that he may not be getting an accurate picture of his bass and he may be suffering from standing waves or improperly positioned speakers. So getting a sub may be the least of his problems actually.
    Although he may be missing out on some LFE by not having a sub, some of us may be missing out on the overall accuracy of our sound picture due to acoustical problems.
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  12. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    I totally agree Jack. Mike if you're still listening go to tubetraps.com and read up on room acoustics and also look up John Risch on audioasylum.com. It seems you may have a room that needs to be tamed. To tame your room takes a little more thought than say deciding which subwoofer to get but it doesn't have to cost as much as a sub costs either. There are many ways to address your room. However, if you're really intent on addressing your room and getting as accurate a sound as possible, then educate yourself on room acoustics(you don't have to master the information)and experiment. Then again if you like the sound the way it is then so be it and enjoy your system. You can also look up bass traps on this site as well in the DIY section.
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    [Edited last by Martice on September 20, 2001 at 11:13 AM]
     
  13. Michael_UK

    Michael_UK Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank for the relpys guys, I have listened to my mains with bass tones and a ton of movies and yes the output does start drop below ~38 hz but even though the sound rolls off as I get lower, I can still hear 30hz and below notes in films but they are quieter than higher stuff 30 - 80 hz.
    I have thourght about the acustics of my room,I have spent quite some time moving my speakers (forwards and backwards)(and from side to side) in my room and I have seemed to get them just about right positions, I have got boxes creates of old work/magazines in 2 of corners of the rooms, these do break up some standing waves throughout the room.
    Yes the room is not perfect but I wonder on how many peoples HT's on this forum are not perfect sound rooms, I think that is part of the *FUN* of HT is messing about with speakers.
    I do know what very loud deep bass is like, I used to build sound systems into cars. (I know a lot more about Car Audio than HT stuff)
    My car Hits 20 - 30 hz at a painfully loud volumes but I feel that my small HT(at the moment) really only requires 30hz and above.
    I am going to enquire about bass traps to see if I can tweek better sound out of my room but at the moment I am quite happy with what I have.
    Thank you all for your points of view, This does seem to be a very good forum.
     
  14. Robert A

    Robert A Stunt Coordinator

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    Micheal,
    I used to not use a subwoofer. But I repented. I've a room about the same size as yours. I use 4 - 15's in a tuned box (a fairly large box). I'm hoping to make a sonosub in the near future though (just need some funding). But I agree with Jack, without a sub you just aren't going to get to the good stuff (20Hz). It is worth it.
     
  15. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I have cheapo speakers in thebedroom with no sub. No problem. Of course I'm not going for "the movie experience" in the bedroom, just a very secondary system.
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  16. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Being realistic about your room and systems capabilities are the first step in the right direction in building a good sounding HT/audio room. Many of us who have problems with our sound tend to constantly look for that piece of gear that will fix the aspect of performance that we don't like.
    Unfortunately, many of us tend to build our systems with our hearts and not our minds and therefore we have a system that is not in synergy with itself or the room that it's in.
     

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