Does anyone else feel that D-VHS is a stupid investment?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Daniel Becker, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. Daniel Becker

    Daniel Becker Second Unit

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    I just began thinking about this recently (i've got way to much time on my hands at work lately). Doesn't it seem like D-VHS is a really bad idea for both consumers and corporations to invest any money into right now?
    First off, we all know it gives a better picture quality than normal DVDs. However, thats the ONLY advantage it has over the current technology. In fact, it's clearly inferior on every single aspect other than picture quality, to the current DVD format. Not to mention we all know DVD recorders will be mass market priced within a couple years. Lastly, don't forget high-def DVD is not that far away.
    So, it all seems to beg the question? Why would any person/corporation invest in a format that clearly will be obsolete in the VERY near future. I'm just wondering since i've noticed more and more titles being announced for the D-VHS format lately.
    It's also worth noting that i'm relatively new to the board so please forgive me if I already missed a long discussion about this very topic. [​IMG]
    Dan.b
     
  2. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    Daniel,
    You've missed several long discussions, most of which turned nasty very quickly. You should probably do a search and read the existing threads as I'm not sure that yet another discussion would be welcomed with open arms by the membership. [​IMG] Welcome to the Forum, btw!
     
  3. Ammon

    Ammon Stunt Coordinator

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    With the price of D-VHS players and the titles available, I tend to think that it's going to be sold to those with really high-end home theaters. Me personally, I'm waiting for HD-DVD before I even buy an HDTV.
     
  4. Daniel Becker

    Daniel Becker Second Unit

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    I'm sorry. I certainly didn't want to cause an arguement over this topic. I just read something at DigitalBits.com and I wanted to ask about it. Obviously it's a format for the very serious home theater fan, and I think for the most part it's only intended to be just that.


    Dan.b
     
  5. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    No one, even those purchasing D-VHS tapes, are trying to argue that it's the holy-grail of HD formats.
    It's merely a stop-gap way to get HD copies of movies you love now, while we all wait for HD-DVD.
    Expand your thoughts for a moment:
    D-VHS is doing you and everyone else waiting for HD-DVD a big favor...it's setting the standard for audio and video quality in an HD format. NOW is the perfect time to let the studios figure out that we don't like EE in our HD transfers and we don't want to see MPEG artifacting or hear sub-standard audio. Already HD programs on D-VHS set a reference for HD presentation in picture and sound that far exceeds both broadcast and Satellite HD.
    Be thankful. However good HD-DVD looks when it finally gets here...it will owe a lot of it to D-VHS who sets the standard. Remember...the studios involved in getting HD-DVD together really don't care about picture quality and sound quality...they'd be happy with a *cheap* solution that doesn't force them to retool factories or step-up their mastering practices to meed critical viewing standards. Even blue-laser HD-DVD will be at a bandwidth and storage-space disadvantage compared to D-VHS so it's very important that the videophile community show the studios that they are NOT going to settle for overly-compressed/filtered crappy "just a tad better than DVD" looking pictures and the same old 10:1 compressed audio.
    Think there aren't some real concerns to worry about with HD-DVD? Some people who have a lot of money on the line want to muck it up for the videophile community to make a buck...they want red-lasers and royalties from their own proprietary codecs. Not to say we shouldn't be open minded, but it's no secret that abosolute image and sound quality is NOT their first priorirty:
    Read more:
    http://www.eet.com/semi/news/OEG20030113S0041
    Oh, let's leave D-VHS bashing to one of the many already established (and thankfully silent) threads.
     
  6. Charlie Essmeier

    Charlie Essmeier Stunt Coordinator

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    Let's look at the D-VHS advantages over DVD:

    1. Vastly improved picture quality. 1080i beats 480i or 480p every time.
    2. Much better fast forward and rewind feature.
    3. NO MENUS
    4. One type of packaging only.
    5. The packaging isn't fastened shut with three pieces of virtually unremovable tape.
    6. More studio support on day one than DVD had.
    7. No lockups during layer changes.


    D-VHS will soon be obsolete? DVD was introduced in March of 1997, and became obsolete in November of 1998 when the first HDTV sets hit the market. D-VHS may be obsolete soon, but DVD is obsolete NOW. DVD is just another format (along with Beta, Laserdisc, CED, VHD and VHS) that won't display HD.

    There is only one format that will display HD now, and that is D-VHS.

    D-VHS isn't the answer to all problems. It's the answer to one problem, and that is, "How can I view films on-demand in 1080i in my home TODAY?"

    If you don't have that need, then D-VHS isn't for you.

    Charlie
     
  7. Eric_R_C

    Eric_R_C Second Unit

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    Charlie, I agree with everything you said. However...
    3. NO MENUS
    I do like the extras in DVD. What would be nice, however, would be to have DVDs autorun with DD 5.1 automatically selected. We're well past the days where most DVD consumers were watching DVD on stereo or prologic receivers. It's time to make the highest DVD standard the default. I love my Universal discs that play on start-up (i.e. Waterworld)
    Also, stop disabling fast-forward on the FBI screens and Menus!!!
    BTW, I'm not directing this last blast at you, Charlie [​IMG]
     
  8. Paul Butler

    Paul Butler Extra

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    When the price was up way above $1000 it looked to me like an expensive folly.

    With prices now not far above $500 - 600 its beginning to look seriously interesting. Any lower and I suspect many folks would be willing to invest just to have a good close up look at it - I would.

    Paul
     
  9. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    the debate between D-VHS and DVD is irrelevent.
    The debate between D-VHS and HD-DVD may sadly not play out as many of us hope.
    http://www.eet.com/semi/news/OEG20030113S0041
    It is reported that the DVD forum may likely choose Warner's red-laser (9 gig) DVD (the same one we currently use for today's DVDs) and use Microsofts new compression scheme to cram HD movies into the space. In order to do this, hi-frequency (detail) information must be filtered from the image rendering an image that is NOT real hi-definition...regardless of the number of pixels it may have.
    Not to mention this will only exacerbate problems we already have now on current DVD with high-quality auido and extras competing for space needed for video encoding.
    Please people, take the time you'd use to complain or advocate for D-VHS on this thread and instead sign the petition for hi-quality HD-DVD in my link and find out how you can contact members of the DVD-forum to express your concerns.
    This is it. Warner/Microsoft are trying their best to milk their royalty profits as best that they can with their red-laser disc. They DO NOT CARE about how that image looks on your big-screen HDTV or projection system...and could care even less how it sounds on your hi-end audio gear.
    -dave
     
  10. Brian-W

    Brian-W Screenwriter

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    Considering most electronics companies are backing the Blu-Ray spec, Warner/Toshiba and the DVD-Forum may become irrelevant in the future HD-DVD proposals.

    The DVD-Forum was formed by everyone to avoid a format war. And now many of those members are siding with teh Blu-Ray spec (including Matsushita and Pioneer).

    Don't count out Blu-Ray. It may not be the DVD-Forum approved format, but studios may not opt for the DVD-Forum version this time around.

    We won't know until it comes down to the wire.
     
  11. Wyatt_Y

    Wyatt_Y Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't call anything a 'stupid' investment...all purchases are made with each individuals selection and weighting of tradeoffs. Clearly, HD-DVD is preferable to a tape-based format, however, an affordable solution with a broad selection of source material could likely be two or more years out. I've had my HDTV for over a year and have never seen one frame of 1080i output.

    If you pay $600 for a D-VHS player and a few hundred for some movies - that'll have a 3-year life span - that's not terribly unreasonable in comparison to the overall investments made in many home theaters. Since 1998 I've had 4 DVD players and 2 PC's with DVD drives...

    The expected obsolescence, while more apparent with D-VHS, is just as real with all equipment...

    No - I don't have D-VHS...but drop the price a bit more, add a few more titles and keep HD-DVD in its present amorphous state and it'll probably be '$cha-ching$'

    Wyatt
     
  12. Bob Black

    Bob Black Stunt Coordinator

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    Just for the record, the definition of the word obsolete means "no longer in use or fashion. No longer functioning!" By this definition, I would hardly relate this word to DVD since it is the fastest adopted media EVER and continues to grow!

    I have HD in my theater and I find the PQ beautiful in most cases (Discover HD-Theater especially). I have been contemplating the purchase of an HD-VHS deck, just NOT the JVC D-Theater deck that has more break-downs than a Ford Fiat! I find it funny when people call DVD "obsolete" because of the appearance of D-Theater which has roughly twenty titles, a reliability rating worse than the economy, and NO MARKET PENETRATION whatsoever! "Obsolete" does not mean that there exists another type of media that is capable of producing a better picture. I think anyone who knows the real definition of this word knows that D-Theater is actually the obsolete format at this point in time, and may very well stay in that position!

    HD is definitely the future of television and home theater. But just remember - most people consider the tape format to be the "obsolete" technology.
     
  13. PerryD

    PerryD Supporting Actor

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    My price point has already been reached, but connectivity to the new Dish 921 HD-PVR receiver isn't clear regarding recording of HBO and Showtime movies, so I'll wait it out until the Dish receiver is released, and all my questions are answered.

    Reliability aside (and that's a big aside), I won't wait if Dreamworks, Universal, and Fox start putting out their big guns on D-Theater (Gladiator, Jurassic Park, Aliens, True Lies, Star Wars, Die Hard, Sound of Music, Spartacus, Vertigo, etc). Day and Date with some new releases would be nice too.
     
  14. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    The Blu-ray disc format is not even technically a DVD (though the companies backing Blu-ray can have their marketing departments find some way of calling it "HD-DVD").

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will there be a format war, for example? Some studios back the Blu-ray consortium and others the DVD Forum-approved red laser technology now in place for ersatz "HD-DVD."

    Even still the picture will be better than the current DVD specs allow. But DaViD Boulet makes an excellent case against the red laser-based format favored by Toshiba.
     
  15. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Down with red laser "HD" DVD!

    Don't support it with your money if it comes to that!

    We killed DIVX, and we can get Hollywood to pay attention once again!

    Dan
     
  16. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    You got it Dan. I think since WE the early-adopting crowd will be the ones voting with our dollars that we can win that war if we really take it seriously.

    we DID beat DIVX and we CAN beat red-laser HD-DVD.
     
  17. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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  18. Julian Lalor

    Julian Lalor Supporting Actor

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  19. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Bring on HD-DVD.

    Since most of my collection consists of pre-1980 films, I'd want a selection worthy of buying. Spending $35 for Fight Club isn't worth it for me. $35 for an HD version of 2001: A Space Odyssey: Sold! (well, as soon as I have the money for an HD-DVD player).
     
  20. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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