does an HDTV monitor "need" a progressive player?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Peter Hunt, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. Peter Hunt

    Peter Hunt Stunt Coordinator

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    This is a bit of a duplicate question from the video/audio sources forum but it fits into both areas.

    Is it true if your TV has a good reverser 2:3 pulldown on it you don't need a progressive player? I was talking to a sales person about the new Hitachi 51swx20b and he seemed to be a pretty straight shooter. I was planning on getting the Panny RP82 but asked what was the next step up from there. He recommended a Marantz DV4200 which is a little more but does not have progressive which he said would be fine. I compared a feed going into a the TV off a progressive player via components (progressive) and S-VHS (nonprogressive) and the 3:2 looked the same to me (colours of course being different).

    So what do you think? There some truth to many TVs not needing the reverse 3:2? I'd assume it would be better to remove it from the source and not the monitor...

    Thanks as always for any imput.

    Peter
     
  2. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

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    I could be missing something here, but progressive scan and 3:2 pull down are two completly different thing, the 3:2 pull down removes frames bringing movies from 30 (this tv displays) back to the 24 frames they were shot at.

    while a progressive scan id dealing with the lines of resolution and how they are scanned successively instead of interlaced like most people are used to.

    however i do believe some DVD players do a 3:2 pull down of their own, i think this is where yo uhave been confused. it may or may not be better to do the 3:2 pull down form the source like you said, but either way you will stillw ant progressive scan.

    in your comparison of sources you made a couple of mistakes, what you should have done was compared a progressive scan dvd player and a non progressive scan dvd player not a dvd and S-VHS as well you should ahve used component cables (not possible with S-VHS i know) what you may have noticed as the comparable quality was the line doubler in the tv will be bypassed when you feed it a progressive signal. so in essence what you compared was 480p to 480i with a line doubler
     
  3. LaMarcus

    LaMarcus Screenwriter

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    And from what I hear around here, a dvd player will always do a better job of 3:2 pulldown vs. a tv.
     
  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    That's my experience; I'd always go with good player's deinterlacing chip and 2:3 pulldown circuitry than a monitor's internal line doubler and 2:3 circuitry.

    Also agreed that it's unwise to compare the images from S-VHS with prog-scan DVD players.

    Trust what you read here over anything a salesperson tells you. We are not on commission!
     
  5. Peter Hunt

    Peter Hunt Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks John for the feedback,
    Just to clarify what I was watching. There was a DVD progressive player with two feeds coming out of it. One a SVHS and the other feed component cables. One went to one TV and one to a second TV.
    What you're saying to me is what I originally thought/read hear but I was looking at the two sources and other then the richer colour via components they looked decently close. I'm wondering if the DVD player had progressive switched on at all as I know most you can leave it on interaced or progressive.
    Since I wasn't buying the TV unit there (just happened to see it) I wasn't inclined to waste the sales persons time (or mine) looking at their setup to do a proper comparison. I mostly wanted to find out how much a "higher end" progressive DVD player was and that's when the "maybe you don't need progressive" came up with the sales guy.
    Ok thanks for sorting that out, looks like it's back to the world of an affordable mid grade electronics for me [​IMG]
    Peter
     
  6. Peter Hunt

    Peter Hunt Stunt Coordinator

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    Different rant here but here's another question for you guys.

    Everyone (including the manufacturs)refers to a DVD native fps 29.97 converting to 24 fps as a "3-2 pulldown." Infact a pulldown is converting 24fps to 29.97 for typical NTSC display. Removing a pulldown (29.97 to 24) is called a "3-2 pullup." The terms I'm using are from film and industry standards that have been around a lot longer then the home market. I deel with pulldowns all the time in my field and initally was confused why TVs claimed to do "3-2 pulldowns" on 29.97 fps material.

    Great now everyone thinks I'm insane.

    Peter
     
  7. DanielSmi

    DanielSmi Second Unit

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    if i"m correct when you use the line doubler in the TV you have extra conversion. The dvd player converts the digital vid to analog sends it through interlaced component output then the TV contert the analog signal to digital then applies the line doubler then converts it to analog and appears on the TV. where as with the dvd player it takes the digital vid does the progressive scan in the digital realm converts it to progressive analog component then sends it to the tv and it displays it. It's the same benefit of having built-in bass management for dvd-a and sacd in the player instead of the receiver.

    Daniel Smith
     
  8. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

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    Peter:

    I think you confused SVHS and S video (maybe im confused) but my understanding is that SVHS refers to VCR's that have S-video in and out.

    and i believe it was my bad in how i typed i probably shouyld ahve said reverse 3:2 pulldown.

    cheers
    John
     
  9. Peter Hunt

    Peter Hunt Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi John,
    And 'S' video cable is sometimes referred to as an SVHS cable but in my work but people normally just call it an "S cable." S-VHS is a higher end consumer or very low end broadcast format that has about 330 lines of resolution vs normal VHS which is closer to 240/250. I don't know if 'S' cables originated with the SVHS format but they ended up being adpoted on Laser Discs, cable boxes, etc as it does carry better res then rca cables.
    So again in media there's many items that have the same term. SVHS can be a cable or a format. There's probably something not 100% right about what I said but it's more or less there. I'm saying that now because I know someone who's played around with this stuff a lot longer then me is going to point it out. [​IMG] Hehe.
    Peter
     

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