Doctor Who

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by LeslieG, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. NeilO

    NeilO Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,335
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    I don't think any fan of the job Peter Capaldi was doing is ready to say goodbye to him. I believe he has stated that the workload was getting to be a problem for him and he wanted to do other things. I wish he would stay longer, but we can't have that. I do hope that he will jump over to Big Finish relatively quickly. We have the ~75 years he was guarding the vault until Bill came around, loads of adventures alluded to with Clara, and I'm sure there were plenty of gaps this season.
     
    Josh Steinberg likes this.
  2. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Lead Actor
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    8,648
    Likes Received:
    7,220
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    In general, I have an issue with writers/directors/actors not being willing to commit to parts, particularly when those roles bring them greater fame and financial success.

    For instance, Daniel Craig makes a great Bond but complains about it constantly. There's recent buzz that he's returning to the role - the thing is, he was under contract for one more anyway. All of this over whether or not he'd honor his contract?

    Robert Downey Jr seems to have gotten past his "I don't want to do Iron Man anymore" thing, which is nice. At $50 million or more an appearance, there's not a lot to complain about.

    J.J. Abrams seems incapable of finishing anything. He does a great job with projects and then refuses to see them through til their end.

    Just a small handful of examples, but the point is, everyone wants my eyeballs and dollars and wants me, wants the audience, to commit to different long running franchises, be they TV shows or films, and then it feels that no one wants to make the same commitment back to the audience.

    A Doctor Who season is 13 episodes, including the Christmas special. Normal TV is 22 episodes a season, so it's already less work than a normal show. Then, there was that nearly two year gap when no one felt like making any Doctor Who at all.

    I feel like they're asking for a greater commitment from the audience than they are willing to make to the audience. And that is always frustrating.
     
    sidburyjr and Joseph Bolus like this.
  3. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
    Real Name:
    Robert
    A Doctor usually gets about a three year run.

    13 episodes is roughly equal to 26 half hours, which was a season back in the classic days. And they were all usually 4 part serials, so you really only got 5 or 6 stories back then.

    IMO, it's same as it ever was.
     
  4. NeilO

    NeilO Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,335
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    There is no "normal TV" these days. US Network TV is usually 22 episodes, but there are loads of shows on cable that are much less. Regular series in the UK were rarely 22 episodes. Most series I've seen are about 8 episodes per series.
     
  5. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Lead Actor
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    8,648
    Likes Received:
    7,220
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    That's certainly true, and a major part of why I watch less new TV than ever.
     
  6. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,190
    Likes Received:
    2,559
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    I also think it's a courtesy to the new showrunner, letting him have a clean slate to reinvent the show as he wishes. If Moffat had stayed on for another series, my bet is that Capaldi would have too. It's tough enough taking on the voice of the show, without also having to take on the specific voice of one actor's take on the Doctor. It's why RTD let Moffat write the Eleventh Doctor post-regeneration scene in "The End of Time" and why Moffat let Chibnall write the Thirteenth Doctor post-regeneration scene in the upcoming Christmas special.
     
  7. Neil Middlemiss

    Neil Middlemiss Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Neil Middlemiss
    None of this makes any sense to me. I've been watching Doctor Who since I was old enough to crawl and nothing about the character, outside of being portrayed by a man (during a time in television when there would have been NO WAY they would let a woman have the role, let alone a person of color) is intrinsically male. Every scene where the character fights for right against evil, laments human woe, and believes in the good of humanity would sound just as right coming out of any other variant of human. Frankly, I'm miffed at the conclusion you've drawn here (and I typically like and enjoy what you post).
     
  8. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,190
    Likes Received:
    2,559
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    That's exactly what I said!
     
  9. Neil Middlemiss

    Neil Middlemiss Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Neil Middlemiss
    Ha - phew. I misread what you wrote. Thank goodness for that, I was afraid that the fella that spends so much time making sense to me had gone off the rails!
     
    Adam Lenhardt likes this.
  10. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Dial
    It objectively has not. In fact, it has objectively been not this.

    You originally wrote that the casting will "change the dynamics of the show too much." I don't believe that a) the dynamics will change at all, and, b) if they do change, the changes will be "too much." Nothing you wrote in post 1078 has furthered your argument, and, in fact, has served to walk it back somewhat. I have yet to read any persuasive argument by anyone else regarding the change to the supposed "dynamics."

    Similarly, I have yet to read any argument against the casting from a storytelling/lore perspective that isn't addressed by my post 1067 or Neil's post 1087 (and to certain extent, portions of your own post 1078). You didn't make this argument, but I wanted highlight the canonical evidence against.

    Simply put: nothing substantive is likely to change by virtue of the biological sex change and that change alone (indeed, do we even know if the Doctor's gender is changing, or merely the Doctor's biological sex?).
     
    Neil Middlemiss likes this.
  11. Neil Middlemiss

    Neil Middlemiss Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,569
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Neil Middlemiss
    Why is any step toward equality on television or in film dismissed as a political stunt?

    And people are (rightly) still complaining about the lack of women (and people of color) in lead roles on television (and especially in science-fiction)! We simply do not have characters in film and television that effectively or accurately reflect the demographic make up of the world we live in. And that needs to change.
     
  12. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
    Real Name:
    Robert
    The entire concept of regeneration is a stunt. It was a desperate stunt pulled by a production team whose lead actor had grown too ill to continue in the role he created, and their stunt saved their jobs and the show.

    Three years later, they used that stunt to save the show again, this time from dropping ratings. And it worked.
     
    Greg.K likes this.
  13. Greg.K

    Greg.K Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1998
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    NY
    Real Name:
    Greg K.
    A stunt it may be, but it's one that will make me excited to tune in when I'd grown bored of the show under Moffat. Good choice.
     
  14. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,190
    Likes Received:
    2,559
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    How so? The First Doctor was over 200 when he stole the TARDIS and left Gallifrey.

    Yes; I have walked it back somewhat. My first reaction was strongly negative. A lot people I really respect disagreed with me. Whenever that happens, I try and think long and hard about why I hold the opinion I do. After thirteen male Doctors, I was quite settled on the Doctor as a male character. The idea that this would change unsettled me. The idea that Capaldi is leaving when he's just finally mastered the character is unsettling to me. The idea that Time Lords could change genders is a relatively new concept to the televised canon. I know what the show is with a male Doctor, and I know how it flows. Casting a female Doctor seemed like a dramatic disruption to that, and that in turn seemed full of peril to me.

    The more I think about it, and the more I read arguments in favor of it, the more I see potential upsides in a dramatic disruption. When the show has fallen short for me in recent years, it's been those moments where it felt stale or unsurprising. Much like "E.R." or "Law & Order" in their double-digit seasons, you hit episodes where we've seen it all before, with only the details being being different.

    The core of a centuries-old alien with two hearts traveling all throughout time and space in an old police box, taking on strays and being curious, decent and begrudgingly heroic will remain. I suppose everything else is open to reinterpretation, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. "We all change. When you think about it, we're all different people all through our lives, and that's okay, that's good, you gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be."

    This is a good question.
     
  15. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Yeah, given how long Gallifreyans live (I think the Doctor is still 2000-ish), he was a rebellious teenager. As we know now, he looked old, but he was a kid who just stole his parents car and went on a road trip.


    Ah, but isn't part of the heart of the show plunging into the unknown and seeing what happens? They're just doing it in real life now instead of in the scripts.

    And let's be fair... ratings are going down, Moffat burnout set in long ago... the show does need a good shake-up. A new show runner is a start, and finally pulling the trigger on a female Doctor is the most visible sign that things will be different.

    Now... here's hoping they can deliver on the promise. I mean, Colin Baker had the best first scene in the history of the show, and... well...

    I like him. :D
     
    Adam Lenhardt likes this.
  16. Jeffery_H

    Jeffery_H Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Well, can't say I'm that surprised given the absolute rubbish Moffat has done with the show. But, I had hopes of them getting back to a more Classic Who style with the Christmas special and building it back to the glory years of the 3rd and 4th Doctors. Now, I see the show has totally gone off the rails and is nothing more than a political soap box like so many shows have become now.

    It was established there were either male or female genders in Classic Who and regardless of regenerating it did not change that physically. That was how their race would reproduce, nothing else was needed but now it will be given they are changing what the character is dramatically.

    It's nothing more than a stunt, a flavor of the month to do something like this. With movies like Wonder Woman leading the way and all the feminist outcry of equality, especially from hollywood actresses, this is the natural course of things. They simply followed the current trend in society, did what was politically correct and abandoned the core.

    I was never a big fan of New Who, mainly the Tennant and RTD era only. Now, after the Christmas special I will call it done and go back to my classics while leaving the new rubbish to those that can tolerate it.
     
  17. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
    Real Name:
    Robert
    I'm always surprised at how many time travelers there are on the internet who can say without a doubt that things that haven't been filmed or written yet are PC soapbox rubbish.

    Back here in July 2017, though, us poor folks who travel linearly have only seen a one minute, wordless teaser.
     
    Neil Middlemiss likes this.
  18. Blimpoy06

    Blimpoy06 Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    10
    Real Name:
    Darin
    I can tolerate it. It's nice to see them try to be different. No matter what the outcome. It will at least make me watch. I appreciated how they tried to jettison a lot of the baggage of old Who lore by making him the last of the Time Lords. They were free to go in new directions and slowly brought it all back. Too many story threads to attend to dragged the show down. I hope the new show runners take the opportunity to create, and not duplicate.
     
  19. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Eh, it always happens like that.

    Look at DC Comics and their first Crisis. Superman came out of that as the last Kryptonian. As the years went by, everything from Supergirl to Krypto to Krypton itself were resurrected.
     
  20. Scott-S

    Scott-S Cinematographer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    2,234
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    The Land of Zion
    Real Name:
    Scott
    The way to fix the perceived inequality is to not just take a male role and re-boot it as a female. Or take a white role and re-cast it as a some other race. The way to fix the problem is to write NEW, awesome characters, and write stories that show a bad-ass woman or make a new hero that happens to be black. Just simply swapping an existing character feels to me somehow cheap and condescending to both the audience and to women.
     

Share This Page