Doctor Who: Tom Baker Complete First Season (1 Viewer)

[AndyMcKinney]

I don't think they ever did a replacement for that disc so the 2D and 3D encodes were normal 1080p24.

Yes, the only disc exchange/replacement done was for the 50th Anniversary Boxset. Due to the way BD-3D works, there was no way to have a 50i version of the 2D on the same disc as the 3D. The entire disc has to be encoded all one way, so that's why the BD-3D disc is 24fps for the entire disc. And, of course, the disc exchange was only done in "PAL" countries, since most consumers in "NTSC" countries likely would not be able to even play a 50i disc.

Honestly even that was still far from the biggest screwup

Doctor Who the Movie (1996) hold that honor. As I understand the sequence of events this was a US/Canadian TV movie which was produced at 1080p24 on 35mm stock in hopes that it would lead to enough buzz to lead into a New Doctor Who TV series with some North American TV contract and money.

Umm, not quite. 1080p HD wasn't around in 1996, so it was not 'produced' in 1080p. It was produced the same way other US television was at the time (like Star Trek: The Next Generation): The live-action was shot on 35mm film, and it was edited/assembled on NTSC videotape. Like Next Gen, there were also probably many video-generated effects which were probably created and/or rendered in NTSC/standard definition only, rather than made on film.

When it aired in the UK of course they converted it to normal PAL 576/50i to show on UK TV.
When they produced the DVD years ago they used the PAL Master with the 4% speedup not only for the UK R2 DVD, but eventually also for the US R1 DVD with the PAL speedup despite it actually having a correct US master that could have been used.

As far as I remember, the BBC did not have access to the original NTSC master. That would have resided with Universal Studios (who produced the movie and who also would have been in possession of all the original film elements).

A couple years ago they did a Bluray in Europe so the easiest and most sensible thing to do would be to go back the 24p master and put in on disc at the correct speed for the first time , but instead they went back and did an upscaled 1080i/50 based on the PAL master so it still has never been seen at the correct speed in Europe and nowhere since those first US/Canadian TV broadcasts.

There is no 24p master. There are individual bits of film in the Universal vault (without the video FX), there is an NTSC assembled master (with all FX and titles) and a PAL conversion of the assembled NTSC master. That's all.

For a "true" HD presentation, they'd have to go through the exact same process as CBS did for Next Generation: 1). locate and scan all the individual film elements (with Universal's permission and cooperation), 2). re-assemble all the film to conform to the broadcast master, 3). re-do all of the video-generated FX and titles in HD.

That is a time-consuming and expensive proposition, and all for a single 90-minute movie that isn't likely to make anyone much money. Not only that, but you have all of the original film elements stored by another owner (Universal) in another country, and who probably wouldn't turn that footage over for free.

Trust me, it ain't happening.

Here is what the DW Restoration Team had to say about the TV Movie when they were preparing the original DVD release:

The movie was shot on 35mm film at 24fps and then the negatives were transferred to 30fps, 525-line videotape using the normal '3:2 pulldown' technique which inserts twelve repeated video fields per second (two fields equals one video frame) in order to bridge the gap between the two standards. This give a characteristic slight stuttering effect on motion, particularly noticeable on camera pans. The show was edited on video from these neg transfers, so the final movie only exists as a 30fps video master - there is no complete physical film print. In 1996, the movie was initially delivered to BBC Worldwide as a normal video standards conversion from the US video master. As well as retaining 3:2 pulldown artefacts, this also showed the normal problems associated with video standards conversion, such as motion blur and judder. On advice from the Restoration Team, BBC Video producer Sue Kerr asked for a DEFT conversion to be supplied instead, and it is this conversion that forms the basis for all of the released and screened BBC versions.

Steve Roberts (of the Restoration Team) also had this to say about the potential of pitch-correcting the release for BR:

I suspect that if they do that they will take the existing 25fps master and slow it down to 24fps. Without getting very technical, the original 525/60i master doesn't have coherent pulldown cadence - ie the 3:2 pulldown sequence changes on edits rather than being constant throughout. This means that extracting coherent frames back out of it is difficult. We had to do an awful lot of work on the Regenerations version of the TVM to correct frame coherence (essentially ensuring that one frame of PAL video only came from one frame of film, rather than from two). If they went back to the UK transmission master and tried to slow that down to 24fps directly they would find themselves in a world of pain...

If the BBC had involved the Restoration Team in this release, maybe we'd have gotten a pitch-corrected slowdown of the existing 25fps master as outlined in the above paragraph, but the BBC did this one themselves, so just took the easy way out.

 

[David Norman]

Appreciate the correction on The Movie. I was under the impression there was a correct NTSC version that wasn't used and of course all the original 35mm film that were just ignored -- apparently loads more complicated it sounds like. I'm not sure why with the current popularity of DW that wasn't really there in 1996 why Universal wouldn't be more helpful -- though I basically given up on figuring out studios and how they decide between pet projects

 

[David Norman]

I've gone back and re-read the Restoration Team reports and at this point I;m on overload.

I really thought I had a handle on what was available in what original formats especially regarding THE MOVIE, but obviously I'm still far away from catching up on that part of the puzzle. Between those reports, the Gallifrey Base threads, and a couple UK and German DW areas it's all so muddled and muddied I'm not sure what's even possible at this point. Multiple continents with multiple SD and HD video formats and multiple entities owning pieces of the original puzzle make this a Humpty puzzle way beyond my comprehension at this stage.

A YMMV multiple coupon BN sale seems to be childs play in comparison. Time to take a break and regroup before I pass on some more bad information

 

[Tom St Jones]

Back when SPEARHEAD was issued on Bluray, I predicted to myself THE MOVIE wld likely make it to Blu as it was the only other pre-2005 "Who" shot entirely on film, save for the FX which "can" be recomposited if necessary (obviously, at the time I never thought they wld bother with any further Classic Who on Bluray, as it couldn't be rendered in "true" HD, then or now) and sure enough my prediction was right, albeit as a less-than-perfect release and only in the UK. Here's hoping the U.S. edition, which thus far remains unannounced, is a significant improvement.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

For a "true" HD presentation, they'd have to go through the exact same process as CBS did for Next Generation: 1). locate and scan all the individual film elements (with Universal's permission and cooperation), 2). re-assemble all the film to conform to the broadcast master, 3). re-do all of the video-generated FX and titles in HD.

That is a time-consuming and expensive proposition, and all for a single 90-minute movie that isn't likely to make anyone much money. Not only that, but you have all of the original film elements stored by another owner (Universal) in another country, and who probably wouldn't turn that footage over for free.

I think Universal owning the original film elements -- assuming they even kept them -- is the biggest stumbling block for a proper TVM HD release.

The TV movie doesn't actually have a ton of FX shots in it, and the visual effects themselves are pretty basic stuff by 2018 standards. A lot of stuff like the TARDIS being bigger on the inside was done with trick editing; you don't have any shots like in the revival or the original pilot where you look through the doors of the TARDIS exterior prop into the TARDIS interior set.

Yes, reassembling the movie from the original elements would be time-consuming, but they've done it for shows like "Twin Peaks" and "Freaks & Geeks" with a much longer running time. "Doctor Who" has a massive global fan base, and represents a big moneymaker for BBC Worldwide. Coupled with the fact that it's one of only two live-action Eighth Doctor stories, and I think they'd make their money back, as well as futureproofing an asset.

 

[Ethan Riley]

Anybody have the set yet? How is it?

 

[Doug Wallen]

Mine is supposed to be her Friday!!!

 

[AndyMcKinney]

The US set is missing a 40-minute bonus feature that will be on the UK set. Quoted from Steve Roberts of the DW Restoration Team (who worked on this release):

Uh oh. The Yanks have finally spotted that the US discs don't include Ed Stradling's 40 min doco 'The Doctor Who Times', which was too expensive to clear for the US...

So, apparently, 'The Doctor Who Times' documentary will be on the UK set but not the US one. 'Too expensive to clear'... wonder if it was music-related? I guess it was that or some clips from non-Doctor Who programmes.

This isn't the first time that clearances issues have caused the US set to miss something: A Season 3 commentary on the UK release "New" series was replaced with a podcast commentary for US release. Also, I think the Beatles clip in "The Space Museum" had to be edited out of the US release of that serial.

Yet another reason to import the UK set if you have compatible equipment.

Edit: Ed Stradling has come forward with the reason. It was music:

It included music which couldn't be cleared in the USA at any price. I was off doing another job by the time we found out... We didn't know about the music problem at the time... I delivered it, only to discover at the last minute that two pieces of music were unclearable in the USA.

 

[Doug Wallen]

Received my copy this afternoon. Wasn't sure what I was expecting, but I have been pleasantly surprised. I have watched Robot, the extras and then viewed The Ark In Space (a favorite) with the "enhanced" effects. As others will undoubtedly say, the extras are amazing. The upconverts look awfully good considering their source. Colors have just bowled me over. Looking forward to continuing my exploration of this release.

Sure would like to see this trend continue.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Can anybody confirm that the US release is indeed 1080i60? If so, I'll pick it up the next time Barnes & Noble has a British television sale.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

The US set is going to be 1080i/60, and the UK set is going to be 1080i/50. Shouldn't be any 24fps to worry about.

There are also a few subtitles missing in the US version which may or may not be fixed in the UK version (I've heard at least some of them are present in the UK version).

 

[AndyMcKinney]

The UK set (at least) will be getting a disc exchange. Here's what they've had to say:

Thank you for contacting BBC DVD Support.

We will be offering replacements for the errors on Disc 3 (The Sontaran Experiment) and Disc 5 (Revenge of the Cybermen) in the Doctor Who The Collection Season 12 Blu-ray release.

In order to obtain a replacement, please email proof of purchase to this DVD Support line, in the form of a receipt from the retailer. If you do not have a receipt from the retailer, then please email a picture of the product with your full name and postal address in view.

The estimated time frame for the replacement to be available is 4-5 weeks. Please allow some time for the replacement disc to reach you.


Remember, this is what they've told a UK fan who contacted them by email.

If you are in the US, you should probably still contact them first (especially if you're asking about the US set). Their email address is [email protected].

 

[bontox]

Does anyone know if the TV episodes are widescreen 16:9, or standard 4:3 like they were at broadcast? I’ve seen reports that the episodes are shown in 1:33:1, which would be 4:3. Then again, I’ve seen pictures of the Blu-ray’s home screen at it is 16:9. Thank you!

 

[David Weicker]

Does anyone know if the TV episodes are widescreen 16:9, or standard 4:3 like they were at broadcast? I’ve seen reports that the episodes are shown in 1:33:1, which would be 4:3. Then again, I’ve seen pictures of the Blu-ray’s home screen at it is 16:9. Thank you!

The episodes are 4:3.

Just watched The Ark In Space last night

 

[bontox]

Thank you, David! Huh. I do wonder if the Blu-ray is worth the purchase. I recently picked up most of these episodes via UK DVD and then HQ ripped them for use at home in the USA. Would you say the Blu-ray copy of The Ark In Space is that much better visually than it's DVD counterpart?

EDIT: Eh. I went for it. Too many folks gushing over how lovely and well-made the Blu-ray revisions are when compared to all streaming and DVD counterparts. Thanks again for your earlier response, David! I would have preferred 16:9, but realize that'd be quite the impossible trick for the restoration team.

 

[David Norman]

Well, pulling this all forward with next updates.

The first replacement discs from BBC were received in the last couple days and in the "Never Assume Anything" category, it appears the Sontoran Experiment audio issues have been fixed, BUT the Revenge of the Cybermen episode hasn't. It isn't entirely clear whether BBC mailed out original discs or the Replication Company made another set of discs with the same incorrect files so it's still not over.

I haven't read of any US customers receiving replacements yet.


Either the UK set is sold out in current form or was pulled from Sale after the bad discs were discovered. There is confusing information on whether the set is considered gone and OOP permanently or more likely on hiatus until replacement discs are ready and then will return in the current configuration, or will return later with a standard packaging similar to the US set.

The 3rd Party Prices on teh sets has gone crazy and speculators running rampant and panicking customers are likely getting fleeced. For those that want the Deluxe Packaging with the booklet and with the discs in Region B encodes, I suggest eitehr waiting out the panic OR buying the AUS set which appears to be identical to the UK set other than the UK/AUS ratings logos. The AUS set was released AUG 1 and still has the 'bad' discs. JBHiFi.com.au is the most common source of AUS discs shipped to the US and the set is around $54-55USD shipped right now after you contact JB to refund the AUS GST. If you are patient and wait for a JB sale you may be able to get it even cheaper.

 

[David Norman]

Also just for fun -- Doctor Who Magazine just released a blurb about the next Classic Who Bluray release on November 19 -- Season 19 Peter Davison's first season. The pictures shown from the magazine appear to be almost identical to the Season 12 LE set.

Running Betting line of course is whether the correct corrected discs of S12 will be in customers collection by then


http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=15430582&postcount=1

 

[David Norman]

REPLACEMENT DISC CONTACTS
FOR US editions
[email protected]

UK:
Please email [email protected]

AUS sets -- someone said BBC sent them this email address to contact for AUS
[email protected]

Send a short email with your name and address and either a proof of purchase or photo of the product you have purchased. It may take up to 4-5 weeks to receive replacement discs. Some have gotten automated responses, others have gotten no response from sending a mail. Not sure it's critical since the discs are being delayed again.
Proof of Purchase like a retailer invoice, order summary, etc. Some people have been asked for some pics of either the discs/UPC I suspect they'll ask for more if they need.



My current best attempt to summarize the errors with the original release which so far are isolated to 2 discs:
Disc 3 -- Part 1 of The Sontaran Experiment has a polarity reversal of one channel of the audio resulting in a poor quality, tinny sound/phasing, and the sound coming out of the wrong speakers in a surround setup.
This seems to be fixed from 1st reports of the replacement discs received and seems to be the bigger issues despite the longer list of issues below


Disc 5 -- Revenge of the Cybermen
1) " On Part 1 Michael Wisher's credit is misspelled as 'Michael Wiaher' "

2) "some of the optional CGI shots were not included meaning it was just the original effects"
" The first time Vorus checks the wall monitor to check the Skystriker (the panning shot down the adapted Saturn V model) it is still the original shot. Later we see the Skystriker prepping for take off with steam/ smoke pouring out of several places - this is a CG shot. Then there is one last viewing of the rocket before it is fired and again it is back to the original model. The lift off and all subsequent flight shots are then the CG version."

3) " the cut between the final two shots of Part 4 it appears the final few frames of the penultimate shot overlap with the first few frames of teh final shot, creating a brief, but very distracting, flicker between the shots. " I think when Harry and Sarah run into the Tardis

4) Part 3 - Ian Marter credit overlapping with the subsequent credit

5) The US set has a short period of missing subtitles but apparently the UK/AUS do not if my understanding is correct
"Revenge of the Cybermen," the missing subtitles were at Part 4 from 1:31:26 to 1:31:43

The first batch of Disc 5 Replacement appears to be a repress of the original disc. BBC has sent messages that those were sent to a small number of folks inadvertently and the Real Corrected, Corrected Disc 5 will be sent in "2-3 weeks" Again in my opinion, the totality of Disc 5 issues is nuisance and most of them are split second issues in the overall scheme, but YMMV.



Several other issues have been reported, but it's not clear whether these are intentional of actual mistakes. Most of what I've sound suggests these may be intentional:
Richard Bignell has confirmed some PDFs are missing:
"the Walls Dalek Deathray lolly PDF" BUT it's possible this was intended or moved to a presumed later set

"Doctor Who - Times" special feature on the US set is missing though that appears intentional

PDF of US version of booklet on UK release - but since the UK got a physical booklet it seems this is intentional

There were some complaints on color grading issues compared to the DVD at least on some parts, but this seems intentional and not a mistake and could of course even be a correction of a previous error that has been handed down for decades.

There are some random subtitle spelling/translation errors that most titles probably have if folks were obsessed enough to worry about them

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Well, pulling this all forward with next updates.

The first replacement discs from BBC were received in the last couple days and in the "Never Assume Anything" category, it appears the Sontoran Experiment audio issues have been fixed, BUT the Revenge of the Cybermen episode hasn't. It isn't entirely clear whether BBC mailed out original discs or the Replication Company made another set of discs with the same incorrect files so it's still not over.

I haven't read of any US customers receiving replacements yet.

They accidentally sent the "same" disc five instead of the fixed one (the problems were fixed), so they suspended the disc exchange and sort it all out.

If you have already contacted them, you do not have to do so again...they already have your details. If you received the replaced discs (with incorrect duplicate of Revenge), they'll send a corrected Revenge on its own. If you haven't received anything yet, you'll get both of the correct replacements.

 

[David Norman]

I emailed the BBC address first last week with the original address, but read of the AUS address later since I purchased that set -- so sent them a duplicate. Technically two emails, but since I never heard back from teh first and they hadn't requested no duplicates it was an innocent error.

I think I sent the AUS mail on Sunday and just got a non-auto response today from Roadshow. They said to expect 4-5 weeks before their discs would go out and even mentioned a longer delay since I was in the US so I'm pretty sure that was a individual answering the mail

BBC/UK has been telling their folks 2-3 weeks for nearly a month and now they have to fix the fixed D5 so who knows how long it will actually be. I still haven't read of anyone in the US who has received any replacements yet.

I did find Steve Roberts of the Restoration Team message rather interesing in that it appears to be the Volunteers of the DW Restoration crew who seem to be responsible and doing all the work for handling the email, shipping, as well as fixing the discs and NOT BBC or someone in the Studio Dept. So in between lives, real world jobs, and sleep those people are handling all the DW stuff in essentially their hobby/free time.