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Do you have your center channel set to large ? (1 Viewer)

Scott Simonian

Screenwriter
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Jun 20, 2001
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My Adire LCC weighs a good 80 lbs. Still set mine to small @ 80hz. Some centers may have the ability to extend low but in almost every circumstances you will wind up setting the center to small cause the low frequencies will very quickly overtax your center.
 

LanceJ

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Oct 26, 2002
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How loud are you guys listening to your systems that you are overtaxing these huge center channels when set to "large"???

And, why buy such large models if you don't use their full capabilities?

40Hz isn't exactly kiddie bass--who here knows what this frequency actually feels like? Because not every movie ever made contains this subterranean
 

Scott Simonian

Screenwriter
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Good point. Not all movies have deep bass that will overpower a center channel. And if you are listening to your movies at less than -15db then by all means you might be able to get away with having your center channel set at large. In fact, I used to do the same thing. Now, most of the time I find myself watching very aggressive soundtracks at very high levels (like I said, sometimes around -5db). When you are pushing your speakers so hard at such high levels, any bass under 50hz will begin to make your woofers in your speakers surge wildly because of the sheer high amount of information that is going to them. When this happens, you run into many forms of distortion. Most notably, by Edward, IM distortion. And in the center channel where more than 60% of sound information is coming from IM distortion will be very noticable and detracting from the movie experience.
 

Scott Simonian

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I dont think that would be a problem for me. I, only on a rare occasion will listen at that high of levels. I was just noting that at that high of a SPL your speakers are working their ass off and that is why many people will x-over their speakers higher than what may seem like they can reproduce. Even if a center channel has two 9" woofers on it the speaker would have to bust its ass and then some to get in the 20hz to 40hz area with authority. How many center channels like do people have. Very little, I'd have to say. Isn't the center that was brought up at the beginning of this thread have just two 6 inch drivers with a tweeter. Run full-range? I wouldn't.

The Adire LCC I have is pretty flat anechoic to 60hz and inroom in the 40's I'd say. The port on the back is tuned to 40hz. With that in mind I would never want very much information under 45hz going to it.

Anyway, to be quick I would say if you have a potent center channel and watch at modest levels, awesome! Go ahead and run full range. If you are like the rest of us audioaholics that like high SPLs (mostly talking about movies here) then cross em over at least around 80hz. (it really depends on the speaker) Maybe even 60hz or as high as 120hz.

BTW- you have to keep in mind that even if a speaker is crossed over to a sub (bass management) there will still be quite a bit of information below the cutoff. For instance, lets say we cross over a center that is flat to 40hz and we cross it over at 80hz. At 40hz the level may only be -12db lower than that of a 80hz signal. So if you crossed over at 40hz you may only be down 12db again now, at 20hz this will be a tremendous amount of bass for most big tower speakers to reproduce. So you can see why it is so important to watch the combination of your listening level, speakers natural BW, and the crossover you are using.
 

JasonRabb

Grip
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May 17, 2004
Messages
24
Quick question about all this gentlemen...when one chooses to select "small" in the options for the center, where do these sounds get re-directed? Fronts and subs? ONLY sub? Does this change only refer to redirecting low tones etc?

Thanks for the clarification...

-Jay
 

Jeff Gatie

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Aug 19, 2002
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Setting a speaker to "small" will redirect the bass below the "small" crossover (varies between receivers) to the sub. Note the crossover is not a brick wall, it is a slope, so the bass below the x-over will gradually taper off (as the frequency gets lower) on the speaker and gradually be picked up by the sub. The benefits are 3 fold:

1) The bass is redirected to a sub that is better able to handle it, thus preventing distortion in the less capable speaker.
2) Any bass that the internal crossover in the speaker would drop on the ground is now being played, thus eliminating potential gaps.
3) All the power that the receiver/amp was wasting on trying to power the bass in the "large" speaker (a significant amount considering the power requirements of low bass) is now freed up for the higher freq's, thus allowing the sound to improve along with a significant increase in headroom.
 

Victor Ferguson

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May 2, 2005
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When you select "small" you are activating bass management on that speaker. Depending on the bass managment features you have the information below the crossover setting may being going to the mains, mains + sub or sub only. It all depends on what options you have and how you set it up.
 

JasonRabb

Grip
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
24
Thank you guys! I set my center on "small" and I think I notice a slightly higher degree of clarity coming from it. I listened to some classical pieces encoded in dts 5.1 and everything just sounded better. I am also not the type to feel infringed upon by setting a speaker to "small" and then feeling somehow "less of a man." Ultimately, it is all about how one hears the material. I think I am happier now. = )

-Jay
 

chuckg

Supporting Actor
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Apr 27, 2004
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Warning - I might be wandering off-topic here, but:

Just what do you mean when you say you listen to movies at -15dB? This tells us nothing about how loud it really is in the room. If I have an HTIB with a 50 Watt amp and a speaker efficiency of 84 dB/1W/1m then my SPL will be tremendously lower than someone else with separates, and a stack of 250 Watt amps driving some mondo 97 dB/1W/1m speakers.

What you are really telling us is that you don't have enough headroom on your current amplifier! grin grin.


Now, give me a minute while I replace my 200W sub amp with that old Phase Linear 700 I've had for 25 years.
 

Jeff Gatie

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Aug 19, 2002
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THis has to do with reference level. -15dB is short for 15dB below reference level. If a system is calibrated to reference level (average 85dB, max 105dB, max 115dB LFE), and you are watching at -15dB at your seating position, you will be listening at the exact same level as someone else that is -15dB from their seating position (70dB average, 90dB max, 100dB max LFE). See the Primer for more details on calibration and reference level.
 

Scott Simonian

Screenwriter
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Jun 20, 2001
Messages
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Right. That ment that I would need to have it run 15dB hotter in order to be running at Dolby reference level. Which is freakin' loud! I said in an earlier post that I may push -5dB. I haven't done that in a long time and I couldn't ever see myself doing again soon. Unless I got some new speakers. :D
 

Kenneth Harden

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May 13, 2002
Messages
1,365
I have a Klipsch C3 (dual 6.5" and the horn - sealed box) - I set it as small and a 80 Hz. hi-pass in my receiver.

The speaker works hard enough and I don't want it to worry about bass.
 

John_RO

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
85
I have the little brother to that center, the CS245i. While it is quite a capable center, I set it to small and let my SVS handle the bass. Even with the 400, you should set it to small and let your sub handle the bottom end. The result will be much cleaner dialog and more punch when you need it.
 

Mark Seaton

Supporting Actor
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Oct 10, 1999
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Real Name
Mark Seaton
Hi everyone,

While I tend to expect much more than most from systems I work on, I have yet to find a center channel that doesn't benefit significantly from being set to small. The catch comes in with the subwoofer performance. If the system sounds better with the center channel set to large, you probably have problems with the response of the sub or its integration with the main speaker. Sometimes it's relatively easy to improve, other times it's much more difficult.

A THX certified receiver will put out test tones that should be calibrated to 75dB at the listening position with the main volume set to "0dB." Most other receivers and processors are set to the same level, but many do vary a bit. Comfortable playback level is dependent on a variety of factors such as the background noise level in the room, the clean capability of the speakers and their amplifiers, the particular soundtrack being watched, as well as the acoustics and size of the space you are in. In larger rooms and/or rooms with significant efforts put into the acoustics, -8dB to 0dB is often a very appropriate level to watch movies at. Note that the duration of a movie makes for a comfortable level, where listening just to multiple wild demo scenes can get a bit taxing on the ears, as I can attest to having run a few demo rooms at trade shows.

Getting back to the size of the center channel, I've set up many Aerial CC-5s and even a few speakers with dual 10" or 12" drivers in them, and when a capable sub is used, they always should be set to small. Pull off the grill on your center for a raukus scene. Now play with the crossover or small/large setting and see what the woofers in your center channel are being asked to do. Of course much of this comes back to expectations and frames of reference.

Hope this helps.
 

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