Do the SVS 12" ISD drivers (bottom ones) use foam or rubber surrounds?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Kenneth Harden, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I can't find the info on their site.

    Thanks!
     
  2. JasonCI

    JasonCI Stunt Coordinator

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    Rubber
     
  3. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I am rubber you are glue...

    I prefer rubber. There is some trauma involved. When I was smaller, my dad was showing me his Fisher speakers (15" woofers) and with the grills off, I saw chuncks of foam starting to SHOOT out of the surround!

    Needless to say, if I am laying down serious coin for speakers, I want them to last.

    Also, I live in the high desert, and there is basically no humidity, and I know that doesn't help.
     
  4. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

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    Dan Wiggins has posted many times that the formula for the foam surrounds is much better than it was a few years ago. Current foam surrounds should last just as long as rubber.

    -Robert
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    The ISD 12" woofer dose use a rubber based surround currently. Their reason/s for it's use over Foam, you'ed have to directly ask SVS Tom V...

    Foam used for surrounds has been given a makeover you might say. The foam surrounds of today will last as long as most rubber/sanopre based surrounds.

    It's been stated that state of the art foam surrounds, is/are actually ~{a better/more accurate material for surrounds on drivers}~.
    Only the building experts of said driver/woofer can really comment as if this is true. Saying and proving are 2 different things.

    A new CO building Higher End Woofs picked Foam Surrounds over Rubber/Sano based ones on a particular line of woofers and the reasons given were not what one would think. In testing they found it to be a more accurate material for "their woofer design"..

    The old days, 60's, 70's and even some speaker well into the late 80's, foam surrounds did fall to a death, disinagrate with time, some quicker than others.

    Over time foam & rubber material make-ups have changed and I would not base a speaker/woofer selection purchase on if it has foam or rubber surrounds when buying todays built speakers or subs.....

    SVS puroduced {both} foam and rubber surround 12" woofs threw their sub building life...First SVS subwoofers sold used a FOAM surrounded HP-12" woofer! I have eight of them, and all are foam, should I sell these ASAP, don't think so...Can you say IB one day....

    Todays foam surrounds will last 15-20 plus years regardless of it's home climate,,, no problem. "Assuming" their not abused deliberitly, in which case they are still no worse off than Rubber/Sano surrounds...

    You might want to read up on it, 30 plus years has brought new material makeups for both foam and rubber surrounds.

    Regards
    Geoff ¥
     
  6. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    The 12" ISD woofers have an advanced syntheic "foam" rubber surround. Its type has been in use by SVS since day one, all over the world, and not one has shown any signs of deterioration or failure. As has been noted, the durability of this type part is really unquestioned today.

    Other SVS's use other types of surrounds, "NBR" "Santoprene" etc. Sometimes we advertise this, sometimes we're not interested in tipping our hat.

    I can say that each is a cohesive part of a total design for optimal performance without blowing out price too badly. There are few real "rubber" surrounds used really. They are nearly all some sort of synthetic material.

    Ron
     
  7. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi Ron

    Did not the Standard driver released in the very first single port SVS tube subs consist of a Foam surround, prior to the "new driver upgrade offered to those owners"..??

    Or was it, tho looking quite like FOAM, (a mixed composite of foam and rubber) but simply looking->(much more like Foam). This, compared to the up-graded driver offerd to owners of original SVS single port tube subs.

    The offered at that time 12" "Upgrade Drivers Surround" looks much more like a Synthetic rubber type based surround even tho ALL drivers seem to have been made of some type of mix syn-composites from your comments above.

    "Makes NO difference really", but they certainly (the very first 12" drivers), look very much more like some type of foam even if a mix of synthetic/composite materials was used for them..

    Or is it just "simply that", (they just look more like a foam surround)-"first original driver", compared to the upgrade driver offered along with the other 12-inch drivers offered & used by SVS threw on going years..

    Just clearly curious, call it cornfused..[​IMG]

    Best Regards
    Geoff ¥
     
  8. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Ron:

    Thanks for the responce!

    I know a lot of HOT products use foam-like surrounds (SVS, many super long throw designs) and I don't hear about issues.

    When I think foam, I usually think of the sort of surround you see on Sony's cheap 12" sub.
     
  9. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Geoff,

    I can't say for sure. There are probably 100 distinct changes to the original woofer thru to today. It's entirely possible the first gen surround was a bit different.

    We're always exploring new materials but the simple fact is the high performance "foam" surrounds we can tap today are fantastically good and durable. This would have applied to the first woofer we ever installed though. I still have one of the first we ever shipped in daily use.

    The overall performance of a product is not going to be compromised one iota if the OEM is making smart choices that may include a high quality foam part. There are plenty of junk woofers that use "rubber" surrounds as well, so never use that part material as any sort of indicator of its pedigree.

    Ron
     
  10. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    OPPS:

    I take it back, the 12" Sony uses a RUBBER surround, but the unit is a boomy piece of carp that would be more at home in a car than a home.

    Also, my 49 cent Parts Express drivers use rubber surrounds, but they are as thin as a sheet of paper.
     
  11. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    I still have one of the first we ever shipped in daily use.
    __________________________________________________ __

    Have you ever considered up-grading Ron?...:b
     
  12. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

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    Foam surrounds have a lot of work to do in today's speaker market to compensate for the bad reputation they have earned themselves. It might be a good idea for a speaker maker that uses newer-style foam surrounds to make a mention of the different type of plastic/rubber, etc., than previous foam surrounds.
     
  13. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Yes it does.
     
  14. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Foam surrounds, which have been around for 3 decades or so, are still used. Some individuals have reported rot or degradation while others haven't. To make it even seem more perplexing, given a particular speaker, some have discovered this degradation while others have not. This begs the questions how does it occur and why.

    There are two primary ways that rot can occur. First one has degradation that occurs as a result of exposure to UV and ozone. Secondly, degradation can also occur as a result of biological mechanisms. Essentially the foam becomes a source of food for a variety of microbes. With regards to the latter mechanism, storing your speakers in basement or somewhere that's cool and dry can actually exascerbate this problem.

    As to why this sometimes does and doesn't occur, the answer lies in the sort of materials the foam is constructed of. It turns out that foam that incorporates ester type compounds is enormously susceptible. Although this general information was generally known as far back as the 70's, ester based foams were still used as they are today. Occasionally we can blame the manufacturer of the speakers when they know what they're using. However, given that the price of the ester vs non-ester based surrounds are the same, or nearly so, often the manufacturer of the speaker who buys his drivers from a number of sources, is never told that these surrounds are frequently interchanged. Hence, unless specifications which include the nature of the foam surround are given to their suppliers, and unless the speaker manufacturer has a lab that can routinely analyze the foam for the presence of ester material, it can be a bit of a crap shoot.

    If your drivers use other sorts of materials such as polybutadiene, polyvinylchloride (PVC) modified polystyerenes, rubber or sythethic elastomer modified cloth surround, you're pretty much guaranteed that your surrounds won't fall apart. Of course, if you're the sort of person who cleans their surrounds with chemicals that can leach the plasticizers out, then you'll certainly find that they'll become brittle after time
     

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