Do I Need a New Router or Modem? (1 Viewer)

[Dennis Nicholls]

Do most of you guys have above ground legacy cable strung on phone poles? I feel fortunate to have underground fiber up to my sub then underground cable the last couple hundred yards. My service is always active. My house is wired with RG6 via a patch panel so I ran a direct line from outside to my office. (The other in-house cable is used for OTA antenna.) Unlike Dave's experience, my SB6183 never goes down or needs a reboot.

I'd guess that a lot of legacy cable systems are going to become increasingly problematic going forward.

 

[David Norman]

Regardless of what you have been reading here there is a difference between 3.0 and 3.1 docsis.
Good luck, hope it works out.

Brian

Interested since I thought the biggest advantage was increased speed capability
For an internet service limited to 60/5 (mine) or 100/10 (Mike's) -- what advantages does 3.1 have over 3.0 in an average home use situation or even a heavy multiuser household.

The TC8717T Spectrum supplied appears to be 3.0 like the 6141 though.

Do most of you guys have above ground legacy cable strung on phone poles? I feel fortunate to have underground fiber up to my sub then underground cable the last couple hundred yards. My service is always active. My house is wired with RG6 via a patch panel so I ran a direct line from outside to my office. (The other in-house cable is used for OTA antenna.) Unlike Dave's experience, my SB6183 never goes down or needs a reboot.

I'd guess that a lot of legacy cable systems are going to become increasingly problematic going forward.

My neighborhood is underground cables that were installed when the Subdivision was laid out in the early 1990's. I think outside the neighborhood it;s above ground. I know TWC and Spectrum both have upgraded the wiring a lot in the last 15 years, but no idea what the wiring in the general region is. I do know there are no Gig Speeds within 30-45 miles though so I'm assuming most of the system is still old tech

I think my main issue with the 6183 may have been heat related which seems to be a common complaint with the 6183. It seemed be run substantially hotter than the 6141. I tried even using a a USB fan nearby, but it didn't seem to help with the reboots

 

[xx Brian xx]

Here are a few advantages to 3.1. When people say a 3.0 modem can achieve close to the same speeds, that is for a single user. In todays homes we see 30 to 100 devices on the network. TV's, cell phones, printers, light switches, smart lights, appliances, and on and on all fighting for bandwidth. For an average home it may not be noticed as much but there is definitely an advantage to the 3.1.
Your ISP needs to support 3.1 docsis in your area to take full advantage of the benefits.

• Speed

Support for up to 10 Gbps downstream and up to 1 Gbps upstream network capacity.

• QUALITY OF EXPERIENCE

Utilizes Active Queue Management to significantly reduce network delay as data traffic grows in the home network, dramatically improving responsiveness for applications such as online gaming.

• HIGHER CAPACITY ON EXISTING NETWORKS

Enables a significant increase in network capacity with the ability to transmit up to 50 percent more data over the same spectrum, on existing HFC networks.

• ENERGY EFFICIENCY

Enhancements to the DOCSIS protocols increase cable modem energy efficiency through advanced energy management protocols.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Do most of you guys have above ground legacy cable strung on phone poles? I feel fortunate to have underground fiber up to my sub then underground cable the last couple hundred yards. My service is always active. My house is wired with RG6 via a patch panel so I ran a direct line from outside to my office. (The other in-house cable is used for OTA antenna.) Unlike Dave's experience, my SB6183 never goes down or needs a reboot.

I'd guess that a lot of legacy cable systems are going to become increasingly problematic going forward.

On Long Island where I grew up and where my folks still reside, all of the power/phone/cable infrastructure is above ground on poles and it’s been a huge problem for years. Hurricane Sandy in 2012 practically tore down the whole network of wires. My parents lost various services for weeks, other people were down months. There are still disruptions that last hours or days whenever there’s a bad storm. And all of the powers that be absolutely refuse to take any steps whatsoever towards putting this stuff underground. Instead, they play whack-a-mole with fixing it every time there’s bad weather. It’s the northeast - we get rain, snow, wind, lightning - and it’s always an issue. None of us that have lived there and pay for service understand why no one acts on this. Even if you cede the point that burying all of the lines takes time, money and effort and would cause disruptions while it was in progress, we already have disruptions from the current system and already waste time, money and effort maintaining it. The long term fix has to be cheaper and more efficient than making short term repairs all the time.

 

[David Norman]

Here are a few advantages to 3.1. When people say a 3.0 modem can achieve close to the same speeds, that is for a single user. In todays homes we see 30 to 100 devices on the network. TV's, cell phones, printers, light switches, smart lights, appliances, and on and on all fighting for bandwidth. For an average home it may not be noticed as much but there is definitely an advantage to the 3.1.
Your ISP needs to support 3.1 docsis in your area to take full advantage of the benefits.

Probably rules me out on most fronts -- I think if I turned everything I can think on at once I wouldn't get to 30. Most of the time I think I max at 8-10 and most of time only 3-4 really active -- a bit more with my wife having to teach online for the time being.
Lights, Thermostat, Refrg, Toilet, Oven, Doorbell, Kitchen Pantry, etc still on old school unhackable pen and paper method.

I'm not sure if our ISP is 3.1 supported but I suspect it is. If'/when the current Modem ceases to work I'd probably move up a level anyway

 

[Mike Frezon]

So, the Spectrum tech came today.

It turns out that everything was pretty much as it should have been.

Which leads to both good news and bad news scenarios.

By me going out and getting the new modem and router, it opened me up to a 5G network--something I didn't have with the old gear. However, my 4-year old custom HP laptop has an internet card which apparently doesn't have 5G capability.

So the guy tested the modem and said it was getting 100+mbps service. We went into the basement and he did the test at the connections there. He neatened things up and disconnected the extraneous cables and splitters.

His question #1 for me was what device did I use to conduct my speed tests. Question #2 was whether I was using a 2.4ghz or 5g network on the laptop.

As I've read in discussions on this forum, 5G is faster but has less reach than the 2.4G. I'm trying to think of all the devices which use my wifi: two laptops, two iPhones, Nest thermostat, Nest doorbell camera, Apple 4kTV and some of my HT gear (Oppo 203 and Denon X3600). I think that's it.

My wife's laptop--which I only got about a month ago--has 5G capability. We connected it to my brand new 5G network and it immediately speed-tested at 120mbps.

My laptop--without 5G--but with eliminating the noise of all the unconnected wires throughout the house...is now at least hitting 35 (for DL) on the speed tests. 11 for UL. According to the tech, on the older network, it is not realistic to expect to hit anything higher. The 2.4G will reach farther but not be as fast. But he felt for my particular usage I should be adequately served by those speeds. He also recommended switching from Firefox t a different browser! (EDIT: From my laptop specs: Wireless: 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] )

I told the tech I was contemplating putting the 6141 back into service--to get a smaller footprint on the modem--and he swapped out the TC modem for an Arris 1602a.

He also agreed to check out the lines outside from my house and at the pole. He discovered this at first glance:

and then further investigation:

He blamed the squirrels. So he replaced all the wiring from the pole to my house.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but that's my report.

 

[John Dirk]

Mike. There's no reason a 2.4 G connection shouldn't be able to handle 100 Mbps however, if the speeds are testing at or above 100Mbps anywhere inside your home then Spectrum is effectively off the hook. It sounds like the tech even went above and beyond by checking your inside wiring.

If your older laptop has a USB port you may want to consider something like this. It will effectively upgrade your laptop to 5G and 802.11AC which would put it more or less on par with your wifes. I even found it at Staples for you since I know you have one of those nearby.

https://www.staples.com/tp-link-ac600-wireless-dual-band-usb-adapter-archer-t2u/product_2878631?cid=PS:GooglePLAs:2878631&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=2878631&KPID=2878631&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtT1BRCiARIsAGlY51IJjz0kKwj5Ci0NH3wzT8vQQ2d3k1t3erPurp6_VE0PW16vyTDhLu0aAj_jEALw_wcB

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

I thought that two dogs would squirrel-proof your yard.

I bought a similar WiFi USB dongle to let me use my antique desktop in another room.

 

[Mike Frezon]

If your older laptop has a USB port you may want to consider something like this. It will effectively upgrade your laptop to 5G and 802.11AC which would put it more or less on par with your wifes. I even found it at Staples for you since I know you have one of those nearby.

https://www.staples.com/tp-link-ac6...QQ2d3k1t3erPurp6_VE0PW16vyTDhLu0aAj_jEALw_wcB

Very cool, John. Do they make those for USB 3.0? Would there be any advantage to one over a USB 2.0? Only asking cuz my laptop has two 3.0 ports and one 2.0 port.

I think I might just pick one of those up and see if I see any performance difference in my typical usage.

Any other thoughts as to why my 2.4 is topping out at 35...when there is obviously 100+ in the house??

The tech loved my router. He said that was a smart buy. So the modem is good and the router is good, Aaaargh.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I just did an ethernet connection to my router and scored a 54 on the DL speed.

The tech also advised me to connect and ethernet cable from my router to my Apple 4kTV. Now that I'm understanding all this a bit moire, that seemed like it made a lot of sense. It's done.

 

[John Dirk]

Very cool, John. Do they make those for USB 3.0? Would there be any advantage to one over a USB 2.0? Only asking cuz my laptop has two 3.0 ports and one 2.0 port.

I think I might just pick one of those up and see if I see any performance difference in my typical usage.

Any other thoughts as to why my 2.4 is topping out at 35...when there is obviously 100+ in the house??

The tech loved my router. He said that was a smart buy. So the modem is good and the router is good, Aaaargh.

The main advantage of USB 3.0 is something referred to as Super Speed, which allows it to [theoretically] achieve data transfer rates 10x faster than USB 2.0. Since USB 2.0 can handle 480 Mbps transfer rates, you wouldn't see any advantage with one vs the other.

Wireless performance is heavily dependent on environmental factors, not unlike loudspeaker performance. The location and construction of the walls within your home could affect signal propagation as could the presence of cordless phones, microwaves etc. The bigger question in my mind is why is a wired connection to the router returning only 54 Mbps. I would expect that to be 80 - 90Mbps. I would be curious to know how your wife's laptop fares on the 2.4 G network.

 

[David Norman]

I just did an ethernet connection to my router and scored a 54 on the DL speed.

The tech also advised me to connect and ethernet cable from my router to my Apple 4kTV. Now that I'm understanding all this a bit moire, that seemed like it made a lot of sense. It's done.

Mostly good news and nice to get the rotten cable out of the way even if it wasn't the root of the problem (yet).

I'm sure those beautiful dogs are in league with the squirrels and wouldn't do anything to hurt their feelings -- cats are inherently evil so that's their job to eat the squirrels. I'm with John on the 2.4/5 things -- I have a couple laptops that could still hit 100 easily on 2.4 and with Ethernet connections that shouldn't make a difference. I f you are hitting 100+ on some devices that at least tells you the speed it there.

Honestly 100+ to the APPLE is probably more important than your laptop it sounds. I still wire everything when possible and prefer to minimize WIFI whenever I can. Unfortunately the newer laptop doesn;t have a direct Ethernet port so I'd have to do a workaround to get it.
Cell Phones and my wife's Work Surface Book are the main things on Wifi right now though the Cell phones get very little use for wifi anyway.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Wireless performance is heavily dependent on environmental factors, not unlike loudspeaker performance. The location and construction of the walls within your home could affect signal propagation as could the presence of cordless phones, microwaves etc. The bigger question in my mind is why is a wired connection to the router returning only 54 Mbps. I would expect that to be 80 - 90Mbps. I would be curious to know how your wife's laptop fares on the 2.4 G network.

Our laptops are each used almost exclusive less than ten feet from the router. So environment shouldn't really come into play.

Dammit! I just did speed checks on her laptop (which we've only had for a few weeks). Unless I did something wrong, here are the results.

On the 5G network: 118.26/11.46

On the 2.4G network: 118.05/11.26

I simply toggled between the two networks after clicking on the wirless icon on the Win10 desktray. I'm assuming that it would properly disconnect from the 5G. WTF?

From her laptop's spec sheet: Wireless: Intel Dual-Band Wireless-AC 9560 2x2 + Bluetooth 5.0

 

[Mike Frezon]

Here's the wifi information i just copied from the Win10 Device/Settings/Wifi:

SSID: ... (I removed this)
Protocol: Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n)
Security type: WPA2-Personal
Network band: 2.4 GHz
Network channel: 8
Link-local IPv6 address: fe80::bc5f:d540:be:d83b%11
IPv4 address: 192.168.1.8
IPv4 DNS servers: 192.168.1.1
Manufacturer: Broadcom
Description: Broadcom BCM43142 802.11 bgn Wi-Fi M.2 Adapter
Driver version: 7.35.352.0
Physical address (MAC): 44-1C-A8-F1-7B-E1

 

[Mike Frezon]

All this time, has it been my laptop that's been the issue?!?

Blergh!!!! (I've been binge-watching 30 Rock.)

 

[Dave Upton]

All this time, has it been my laptop that's been the issue?!?

Blergh!!!! (I've been binge-watching 30 Rock.)

Mike,

More than likely, your laptop's wireless card IS the issue. Depending on how old your laptop is, it could also be the CPU. I've seen slower/older CPU's severely limit wireless throughput. John's suggestion of a USB dongle is a good one, but if that isn't any better, you are definitely looking at your machine being the common factor.

I have actually frequently opened up laptops in the past and replaced the built in wireless card. If you send over your current laptop model, I can look up if that's possible.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Here's the link to my laptop, Dave. I bought it in May 2016.

I have little fear digging inside computers. Most of my experience is with desktops, but I did replace the keyboard in my son's laptop a year or two ago. That was an adventure.

If the dongle works (and I'll be stopping at Staples tomorrow!) I'll be more than satisfied. I'm assuming that would completely bypass the internal wireless card for BOTH 2.4 and 5G?

 

[David Norman]

Here's the link to my laptop, Dave. I bought it in May 2016.

I have little fear digging inside computers. Most of my experience is with desktops, but I did replace the keyboard in my son's laptop a year or two ago. That was an adventure.

If the dongle works (and I'll be stopping at Staples tomorrow!) I'll be more than satisfied. I'm assuming that would completely bypass the internal wireless card for BOTH 2.4 and 5G?

Do you have the information like from post 74?

Deleted the rest since Dave seems to have more detailed information below. I'm still not sure why your direct Ethernet Connection is also slow.

 

[Dave Upton]

Mike, unfortunately the included wireless adapter in your laptop is called a 1x1 adapter. This means it can only receive or transmit, not both at the same time. This severely limits the maximum throughput and speed of your wireless. I found a post about your laptop on the HP support forums, as you can see from the response you have a very hard limit due to the current card. The response also almost perfectly mirrors your experience with maximum speeds. He recommends a replacement that you could install and find on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/p/4019880518

Here's the support post I referenced:

WLAN Replacement/Upgrade for Pavilion 15z

I am looking to either replace or uprgrade my WLAN card for my HP Pavilion 15z, item number M7D88AV. I realize that the stock card is only 2.4 GHz, but when I test my Wifi connection i usually get speeds of between 10 and 30 Mbs, sometimes as low as 5 Mbs. When I use the same speed test on my...

h30434.www3.hp.com

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

For some comparisons I did some OOKLA tests a few minutes ago. Sparklight nominal 100 MBs download service (base tier). Laptop approx. 25 feet from router.

Desktop hardwired to router 115.77 MBs down, 2.93 MBs up

Laptop @ 2.4 GHz 62.65 MBs down, 2.32 MBs up
Laptop @ 5 GHz 115.77 MBs down, 2.61 MBs up

Laptop is a Dell E6420 new in July 2012, I bought refurb in 2017. Uses Intel WiFi Link 6205 card.