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Do I need a new reciever or just tune mine better? (1 Viewer)

pfar

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First off, I have a Pioneer VSX-1017txv-k reciever. I bought this about 3 years ago. It has always seemed decent, but now it just seems like I need more. To give some more background I have for speakers klipsch quintet III system with klipsch 12" sub. One thing about the reciever I really don't understand is when I have it on the thx mode while watching a movie I have to turn the reciever up to about 75% or beyond to get to the volume level I find decent enough for watching movies. It is not obnoxious loud (not loud enough to make anyone complain at night time...unless watching an action movie or with lots of bass). When I have it on an advanced surround option like video game mode (seems the loudest) it has decent sound and I can put it at a far less volume setting. Why is this? Do I have it tuned wrong or what. I sometimes think it could be my speakers, but I just had them replaced and it is the same thing. Recently on the reciever the two back channels stopped working which is fine for now because I have only 5 speakers. So I really think my reciever is getting out of date and I am starting to look at new along with new speakers, but in the mean-time what are ways I can adjust the tuning. Last night I did an automatic macc and it seemed to help a bit. Is there anything else? thanks
 

Jason Charlton

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How do movies sound when THX Mode is disabled?


Really, you probably are better off not using THX Mode for digital 5.1 sources. I've always preferred listening to DD and DTS multichannel soundtracks in their native form.


In fact, all of the audio processing features, IMO, are not very useful for movie watching. So I would turn THX off as well as "Advanced Surround" and leave the surround mode set to "Standard".


Do you have Blu-Ray in your system yet? If so, then you probably should consider upgrading your receiver before too long as you're missing out on the lossless audio formats DTS-MA and DolbyHD. Your reciever does not process audio via HDMI, so you are limited to "lossy" DD and DTS audio formats. Upgrading to a newer receiver will allow you to ditch the digital optical or coaxial audio connections and rely solely on HDMI for both audio and video. Not to mention the added fidelity of lossless audio. Could make a huge difference.
 

pfar

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I'm not really sure how to disable it. If you mean just putting it on another setting as in advanced surround, it sounds much louder. What does dd and dts stand for? Sorry new to all the terms. Yes I have Blu ray. And what do you mean by the lossy dd and dts. So you think just by me upgrading my receiver to one with fully hdmi that it will help the sound? And is that in loudness, quality or both? If I would get a new receiver I would definitely want a new one to the market with lots of features so I wouldn't have to upgrade for a while. Also something more powerful than I have now. I have looked at the pioneer vsx-1021 and the onkyo nr609. I also liked a yamaha i saw online but it was over a grand and that is too much for me right now. Is there anything as of features I should be looking for or do you have any recommendations on recievers.
 

pfar

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Yes. When I first bought it I did it manually and last night I did it automatically.
 

Jason Charlton

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Paul,


A closer look at the manual for your receiver (page 30) indicates that "Stream Direct" is the way to listen to audio sources without any additional processing. Give that a shot and let us know if that makes any improvement.


DD (Dolby Digital) and DTS (Digital Theater Sound) are the two primary audio formats used in DVD and Blu-Ray.


Each is a different way of "encoding" or compressing the digital audio data for multichannel soundtracks. Decoders in DVD players, Blu-Ray players, and/or A/V receivers, take the compressed data, decode the single data stream into audio information for each channel, then route each of those signals to their respective speaker.


DVD technology employs "lossy" compression methods to encode these audio streams. "Lossy" in the sense that the process of encoding and compressing the raw audio data into a form that can reliably be transmitted across the relatively limited bandwidth available to DVD meant that some audio fidelity was "lost" in the process. The final product was not as crisp and clear as the studio masters.


The advent of Blu-Ray and the evolution of HDMI brought much greater bandwidth to the table. Finally, compression techniques that preserved bit-for-bit accurate audio encodes were possible. These audio formats (Dolby TrueHD from Dolby, and DTS-Master Audio from DTS) are called "lossless" because they are exactly what the sound engineers hear when they develop the soundtracks.


Lossless audio can ONLY be transmitted via HDMI cable from Blu-Ray to A/V receiver, or via separate analog cables (one for each channel of audio). The latter is less common now that HDMI is so prevalent.


In my experience going from DVD to Blu-Ray the added clarity (particularly of the center channel and dialog) of lossless audio is remarkably improved over the lossy formats. Dynamic range is also improved with lossless audio.


The result isn't necessarily louder (volume control still trumps everything else) but it's definitely clearer and better overall.


Both receivers you mentioned are great models. I have owned Onkyo receivers since the mid-90's and have never had any problems. The 609 is a great value.


In terms of "power", don't be too concerned over wattage numbers. First of all, most receiver manufacturer's numbers are optimistic at best. Second, a modest increase in wattage won't make an audible difference in volume. It actually takes nearly double the wattage to produce just a 3dB increase in volume.


In fact, the Klipsch speakers you have are very sensitive (meaning efficient) models. According to the Klipsch site, they have sensitivites of more than 90dB. This means you don't need lots of power to produce loud volume. The 100 watts per channel of the Onkyo is more than enough power for you. Your current receiver is 110 wpc, but I wouldn't consider the 609 to be any sort of "downgrade" in power.
 

pfar

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I'll try the stream direct when I get a new movie from Netflix, I don't want to do it over streaming so I can get the best sound quality. Ok the lostless sound makes more sense now. So what specs should I be looking at when it comes to receiver and speakers. I know rms is important but I never am able to see that on spec sheets. When getting a new receiver I want something louder with better sound quality too. I like listening to music as much as I like watching movies through it. So loudness is a big deal. I like how with the pioneer 2021 you can download an app and control the volume through that. Zones aren't a big deal now but that may change. Picture up scaling is a big deal. It seems though from my speakers I'm not getting a rich sound from them. I want a powerful sound.
 

Jason Charlton

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When shopping for a receiver, focus mainly on the number and type of inputs to make sure all of your sources (and then some) can be connected to the receiver. If you have any non-HDMI sources (like a Wii), then you may want a receiver that will upconvert analog video to HDMI. Both the Pioneer 1021 and the Onkyo 609 include this feature.


Again, watts per channel is not crucial - anything in the range of 85-90 to 100-110 is going to be roughly the same. Don't let an extra 10 or 20 watts be the deciding factor unless all other things are equal and the price is about the same. Those extra watts won't make a difference to your ears.


Also, if you need/want something like Internet radio streaming, or iPod connectivity - those features are usually the domain of the receiver, so be sure to consider that. Brands to consider include Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Marantz. I would avoid receivers from Sony, they tend not to be a very good value.


Finally, I feel one shouldn't overspend on the receiver. The bulk of your budget should go to speakers. Speakers have the biggest impact on how the system sounds, not the receiver (this goes back to my comments about disabling all the extra processing on the receiver - better to listen in the audio's native format). There are excellent values to be had in receivers for roughly $400 (give or take). No need to spend $700+ unless you have three times that amount available for your speakers.


When shopping for speakers, your ears get the final say. Listen to as many as you can. What sounds good to some people may not sound good to others. If you like the sound of your Klipsch, then audition other models. As with receivers, wattage numbers on speakers are pretty much useless. It's also pointless to "match" the wattage numbers of the receiver to the speakers. They are each measured in different ways, and are often NOT indicative of the real world. It IS important that the impedance of the speakers (the ohms) match the impedance that your receiver is rated for. All receivers can drive 8 ohm speakers. Most will do fine with 6 ohm speakers. Only high-end receivers can drive 4 ohm speakers. So look for 8 ohm speakers.


Also, the speaker's "sensitivity" rating (measured in dB) is the most telling spec in terms of how "loud" they'll get. Sensitivities in the 90dB range and up are good and don't require a lot of power to get to ear-bleeding levels.


So for speakers you want 8 ohm and high sensitivity.


Subwoofers are a slightly different beast. We often recommend NOT getting a subwoofer from most mass-market speaker manufacturers (Polk, Klipsch, etc.) They make good speakers, but average subs. You get much better value from companies like Lava, SVS, Hsu, and others. Size and wattage DO matter for subs. If you want punch, go no less than a 12" subwoofer. Look at low end frequency response - getting down to the mid 20Hz range or lower is best.


The last thing is your budget. I've mentioned a lot of stuff, and it's not likely that you'll be able to go out and do all of this at once. Prioritize things if you can, or let us know what your budget is and we can help prioritize things for you. You say you want better sound - which might suggest focusing on speakers first, but your receiver is pretty outdated, so it's capabilities are limited. It's a tough call.
 

pfar

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Your last sentence is exactly what I was going to ask you in this reply lol. Yea it is a really tough choice for me. Like I said before two of my channels are blown out in my reciever...I'm pretty sure unless I hooked it up wrong which I'm almost positive that I didn't, but I also only have 5 speakers. I think what I might do it get a reciever and a center channel first. My center channel definitely isn't the best. So, my budget for my center I'll allow to be pretty high because I know how important it is...so 500-700 or so tops for my center. I'm not sure how true this is, but I know what you are saying about don't spend a crazy amount for your reciever unless you have really good speakers, but isn't it good to buy a really good reciever so you don't have to update often? I think I will go all out with other speakers too. So just give me a above average price budget recommendation. Also my tv doesn't have any input hdmi's do they make conversion kits to allow for that?
 

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