Do high end CD players actually make a difference? (1 Viewer)

[John Morris]

My jaw just twisted and said "huh?"

Ouch! There's almost nothing worse than a twisted jaw...

 

[Mariusz Filonowicz]

I wondered if in my case when I have Denon 4802 receiver and Denon 2800 as DVD player with Diva 6.1 as main speakers I would see a substantial difference in sound if I'll upgrade to higher end CD player. Are my components a weak link and upgrading would not bring any musical benefits and I should continue using DVD player as a source of for the music?

 

[steve paul]

Yea, I had to get it untwisted..hurt like hell!

 

[John Morris]

Mariusz: If I were you, first I'd consider getting a two channel amp for the front two channels of your system. The Denon 2800, and 4802, both have some sweet sounding DACs so you should be ok at least for awhile. But the Diva 6.1s will respond nicely to an increase in power and especially in the ability of the amps to respond to transients and meet their increased current demands. Remember, you can only hear a difference in source units if the rest of your gear LETS you hear those differences. YMMV.

 

[chris c]

I'll have to side with Ric P on this one. Steve, you got plenty of good advice and basically ignored it. Have you tried a coax digital connection yet? For what its worth (pretty much about what you paid for it) I discerned a definite improvement when replacing my dvd player with a dedicated cd player.

 

[steve paul]

What good advice did I get? Use a coax? Of course I tried that! made no difference. COAX vs Optical has been debated hundreds of times, anyway I paid $80 for a good coax cable, no diff from the optical. I also tried plugging the amp into the wall directly. No difference. Its now plugge dbackinto the monster power center. gee, what other advice did I get? Get a high end CD playerfor much improved sound? I tried that and there was a SLIGHT difference as I have already said numerous times. One thing that NO ONE told me was to try a different amp, and guess what? That did tehtrick and fixed all my problems! So the advice I got was not so good after all FOR MY SYSTEM and I ignorned none of it anyway!! If I missed something, by all means let me know what I missed becuase if a little tweak I missed would of hugely improved things and solved everything I can bring back my new amp and save some money!

How come a few montsh back when I read a post on COAX vs OPTICAL almost EVERYONE said there is no difference? When I tried that there was absolutely 0 difference..now, maybe its just my room or maybe I am asking for too much of thsi setup. If anyone sees anything wrong with thi ssetup let meknow...

Krell HTS 2 processor

B&K ref 7250 II Amp

Toshiba 9200 DVD player (Cd Player)

Monster Power Center

Monitor Ausio Gold Ref 60's

Monitor GR center (rear)

Monitor GR 10's (rear)

This is just the audio portion as this is what I have been dealing with lately. I am totally happy with my projector and screen, and have been for 10 months. My main concern was 2 channel music as HT sounds awesome with the sunfire amp or B&K.

Teh new B&K amp added a nice ritchness and awesome midrange to the sound, but if there is more recommended combo for my speakers by all means let me know so I can try it out!

Ive tried the denon 5800, ELite 49tx, BK 307 on th e reciever side. All were great really, but like I said before once I bought the sunfire amp I figured I could make it even better if I went all seperates. I tried the Theater Grand Ii and it made my Monitor Audios shrill sounding plus the sub output was shot. Then went to the Krell HTS 2 thinking, "Hey, this I could keep for a long time" so I bought it.

My dealer has Krell and B&K and thats about it in the seperates front. With 4 HT dealers in Phx, I can get pretty much any brand of equipment, or could always buy used as well. BUT I am not willing to spend $7k on an amp...I dont have that much $$ to throw around.

Anyone here own the HTS2? What do you have it mated with?

Like i said, I am happy with my system now, finally. BUT if someone thinks a better amp or pprocessor would go better with my speakers by all means let me know!

 

[John Morris]

If anyone sees anything wrong with thi ssetup let meknow...

Steve: No looks pretty good to me. The next upgrade you might want to consider is a good multichannel SACD or DVD-A unit.

 

[Mariusz Filonowicz]

Thank you John, amp is already on my "must buy" list for the near future, however I haven't decided which one to get. I posted thread earlier in this forum asking for advice and I got some good responses. And for now I'll stick with Denon 2800 as my source of music.

 

[chris c]

Steve, it sounds like high-end equipment is pretty much wasted on you. Why not invest in an all-in-one Kenwood hometheater and be done with it? Could have saved yourself a lot of time (ok, forget time) and money.

 

[Max Knight]

The emotions in this thread are pretty hot, but I'd like to add a little observation.

Building a stereo or hometheater setup is not a simple matter of 1 + 1 = 2, 1 + 2 = 3, 3 > 2 therefore 3 is better. A component can't be accurately described as simply double-plus good (for all you Orwell fans)/good/bad or anything like that.

Building an audio setup is much more of an artform. Components interact, sometimes in very subtle ways. Blindly clicking components in and out of a system and expecting some sort of instantaneous + or - in terms of sound quality is unrealistic.

First off, many components need time to "burn in", which has been addressed in this thread.

Second, it's very difficult to discern exactly what has changed in terms of sound without careful listening. Sure, something may sound louder, or deeper, or brighter, immediately, but you have give yourself time to really understand what's going on. Maybe a new CD player is a bit warmer or darker sounding than your old one. Maybe the old one was more transparent, or maybe it was unnaturally bright and the new player is actually revealing truer sound. You can't tell this from simply tossing a disc in and listening for 2 hours.

When reviewers write about pieces of equipment they don't just sit down, listen to a few tracks, and render an immediate judgement. Good reviewers try to understand the nuances of a component. Read "The Absolute Sound" for examples of excellent audio hardware reviews. TAS reviewers often listen to a component many times over a period of months, in many different systems in order to try and understand the particular flavor that component brings to the party.

I'm not saying that we all have the time (or multiple systems) to undertake this type of rigorous evaluation, but you should try to give yourself at least two weeks. If you are buying from a store that won't let you audition a multi-thousand dollar piece of gear in your home for a few weeks and then return it for at least store credit, you are shopping at the wrong type of place.

-Max

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"And for now I'll stick with Denon 2800 as my source of music."

Mariusz,

I, too, use the 2800 as my source and the 5800 as front end. It's almost identical as far as DACs are concerned with your set-up. I love the 2800 for a CD transport and after doing a few comparisons, I figure I'll have to spend a good chunk of change to better the sound with a stand alone CD player...i.e. the Sony SACD 777 that Ric is talking about. My next step is amplifying my mains seperate from the Denon as well as adding a turntable. As more DVD-A and SACD players become available, I may take the plunge...but I also want to experiment with the new Denon Link that comes with the upgrade. This will eliminate the need for bass management in the player itself so I can take full advantage of the higher resolution DACs for serious SACD performance.

Steve Paul,

I agree with Ric and others. Believe me, when I have extra cash...I can't wait to make another upgrade to my system. However, patience is a virtue in this hobby. There are so many tweaks that cost nothing, like speaker placement and room conditioning that can enhance the sonic experience. If the time is not taken to fully understand and hear the differences in each piece...one cannot come to a good conclusion on how good or how bad that piece of gear is. I'm not saying that you couldn't hear a difference...that could very well be the case, but when you're talking about investing the kind of money that you are with your system, those dealers should also be patient with your audition timeline. Most B&Ms at least have a 30 day return, but I would assume that when you spend upwards of 3 grand on a component...they can give you some lee-way. You talk about all the systems you've had in the past, but your changes you made seem inconsistent...For instance, the 5800/Def Tech combo, you didn't like the boominess of the Defs, so you got rid of all of it and added a B&K 307. Why not find speakers that matched well with the 5800? I'm not a big fan of the Defs either...but B&W are a solid match with the Denon. Did you try adding an outboard amp to your Pionner 49 or the B&K 307? You may have been surprised by the pre-amp section of these receivers....to the point that you didn't need the Krell. Forgive me if you've done all of this, but maybe you see my point.

Jeremy

 

[steve paul]

Wasted? Why cuz I audioned all I could and finally have a setup I LOVE..weird. Hey Ive had my share of Home Theater sin a Box about 4 years ago and it has been a steady ugrade path since. Gee what do you use? Why would you feel the need to insult me becuase I have high end gear? If someone talks crap to me (Yes, CRAP) then I defend myself with good reason. read all the posts from top to bottom..gee, what s wrong with wanting the best for your money? If you can do it, do it. If not then be happy with what you have, OR sit around for years checking out stuff in stores but being afraid to buy becuase a new technology may come out. Hell, I was at a store today and saw a HK SIgnature 2 prepro for $300 - Picke dit up to compare it to the $6500 KRELL and there is no comparison of course. I did it cause its ahobby. I ike hearing a $300 pre/pro compared to a $6000 - Of ocurse the HK is going back but it was a used floor sample anyway. SO my setup is being wasted when I listen to Cd's 6 hours a day when I work, or watch a DVD every other night? Guess I should pack it up and send it to you then huh?

 

[steve paul]

Another person who didnot read my posts..I did not add a B&K to def Techs. I only had Def Techs with the 5800. They were boomy and muffled so I bought the Monitors and used them with the 5800 - MUCH better but I saw the 49tx for 2800 and boughtit, sold the 5800 for $2500 - Loved the 49 with the monitors, added a sunfore amp..loved it more. Decided my velo HGS18 was too much for my room after having it a month so I returned it and got the Sunfire MKIV - THEN on this board someone told me it was a waste for me to use my 49tx with an amo and i should get a pre/pro for better sound. I returned the 49tx and got the KRELL HTS 2 - SOuned clearest ever but a tad thin..swapped out the amps and now its perfect with a B&K amp. DOesnt sound to bad to me. If I want something I get it..why wait around for months? My ears know teh difference and i spend 6-7 hours of tweaking and listening e very time I add a piece. The biggest differences came with the KRELL and now the B&K, and of course initially with the monitor audios..

Like I said, Im done. I have the luxury to get what I want and try it all out so dont put someone down for that reason as it is ridiculous!!

I get a 60 day tryout at my main dealer but I refuse to listen everyday to something that made my system worse when I can easily go back and get something different. WHo wouldnt?? I could die tomorrow, I live for today, for now. I dont drag around and hang out in HT stores all day,I bring it home in MY SYSTEM. If it works good, I keep it, if not it goes back.

It seems like some of you think that bad sound will magically get better as time goes on. You may get accustomed to it but it will not get better.

 

[chris c]

"Hell, I was at a store today and saw a HK SIgnature 2 prepro for $300 - Picke dit up to compare it to the $6500 KRELL and there is no comparison of course."
Here is a link that I think may help you:
http://www.addictionrecov.org/paradi...0/QandAS00.htm
I really hope you seek help
Remember, the first step is admitting you have a problem

 

[steve paul]

I bought that with the FULL intention to return it, NEVER thought of keeping it.

 

[chris c]

So, you're sane, but unethical?

 

[Lewis Besze]

Chris,that was uncalled for!

I'm personally sceptical on some of the "advice" myself,simply because they qestionable at best.

Paul was let to beleive by the hype generated by this,and other threads, that some cd players just "blows others away",and you could expect "huge" differences.

Well,everytime I see adjectives like that being used for sound differences I just simply keep that in mind that all this is very subjective other's milage may vary.

Paul maybe isn't a "seasoned" audiophile,but it seems certainly not a JP6 either.He followed the advice he got then he wasn't happy with it based on his own listening experience.However then he being criticized not having keep it longer,or he might have equipment problem,or just flat out don't know what he's talking about?

I haven't heard the 777Es SACD player so I'm not gonna have any opinion on that,however my experience with any type of electroncs is that,they make small differences,compare it to like speakers or room treatments.

YMMV.

 

[chris c]

Yeah, alright, I'm being a little hard on Steve. I apologize for my admittedly rash comments. I've wasted enough of my (and everyone elses) time with this thread so I'll go relax and listen to the stereo that it took me three years to get 'perfect'.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"Another person who didnot read my posts..I did not add a B&K to def Techs. I only had Def Techs with the 5800. They were boomy and muffled so I bought the Monitors and used them with the 5800 - MUCH better"
No, Steve...actually I DID read your post, maybe you should re-read it You were explaining everything so quickly in the beginning...you metion that you had a Denon/Def Tech combo...didn't like the boominess...so you sold it and went to B&K/? combo...just didn't make sense to me, but really I'm just poking you in the belly It's all fun and games to be able to spend this kind of coin on equipment, but when you get to the top...i.e. Krell, Theta, Classe, Levinson, etc. the law of diminishing returns enters the equation. NOT that you can't improve performance by spending more, but the differences will not be the same between a $300 pre/pro and a $6000 pre/pro...when you compare that same $6k pre/pro to say a $10k pre/pro. The differences are there, but maybe not significant enough to necessitate the upgrade.
Jeremy

 

[Mark Austin]

I would have to agree with most here that this buy-a-return-a-thon has been quite humurous, to say the least. It is painfully obvious that some people have more dollars than sense. And those that have listened to higher end equipment realize all too well that valid comparisons/judgements can't be made in the span of a few hours, days, and sometimes weeks. Happy listening everyone.