DLS sub on the way. Will it out gun the WM-40? (1 Viewer)

[Brian Bunge]

Steve,

If you can check the thickness of the cabinet walls (pull the driver if necessary) and give me the height, width and length of the port I can tell you what the DLS is tuned to. This will give us some idea of it's extension capabilities. I'll do it for the other subs as well if you'd like.

 

[Geoff L]

Hi Brian & Steve

Never seen any of the subs in person but I'd guess that the Sony & DLS are tuned right in the area of 30hz to 34hz, and the Kenwood 8 around 34hz to 40hz.

"Just guessing at this point obviously"

Hopfully Steve can get Brian the "inside Slot dimensions", D x W x H on the Sony and DLS, and the Kenwoods port or slot dimension also if it has one. If ported, "inside port diameter" and length.

And of course each "cabinets inside dimensions", he needs that too in order to tell the tuning point of each cabinet.

Should be interesting to see.

Steve your a Beta information tester man!

Have fun..
Geoff

 

[Brian Bunge]

Geoff,

I'm guessing that the DLS is tuned around 30Hz. I've built a sub with a Dayton 8" driver in the past and tuned it to 30Hz. It sounded amazing compared to the little crappy 8" and 10" subs I've heard before. Excellent extension and decent output in my very large room.

 

[steve nn]

MMMM here are the numbers for what they are worth coming from me? All things are constant and consistent though, to the best of my ability. Yes sub placement is marked. All three subs calibrated individually. All calibrated +4db using the Star Wars one THX Optimizer. There test tone is 80 for reference. Sorry guys I am not going to dissect these subs and remember I had to borrow back the Sony .
Pearl Harbor-Arizona blowing up -20. DLS 99
Sony 98
Ken 97
-15 DLS 101
Sony 101
Ken 101
Star Wars II-Fly By -15 Dls 99
Sony 98
Ken 97
-20 DLS 97
Sony 96
Ken 96
Blow-up after fly-by -15 Sony 100
Ken 99
Dls 99
-20 DLS 97
Sony 97
Ken 96
Star Wars I-Big Robot transit machines that mow over the trees. -15 DLS 91
Sony 89
Ken 89
-20 DLS 87
Ken 85
Sony 84
Elevator right before pod race. -15 DLS 84 ? I will confirm this. I could have went a little to far into scene all five times? This is the low extension scene.
Sony 76
Ken 76
First fly-by in pod race. -15 DLS 93
Sony 88
Ken 87
Well there you go. I must admit I was very surprised in the DLS in the HT application against the Sony. I think it sounds every bit as well and then some. I will have no problem thinking of it as the little $100 power-house. Which sub would take more to bottom it out? I don't know and I don't think I will venter into that land with a borrowed sub.

 

[steve nn]

This did not format out the way I had it down. Read slow. Sorry!

 

[Geoff L]

No problem reading your info Steve....

Very nice of you to go to all the trouble of hooking and un-hooking, cal and re-cal...

Allot of work, but produced very "interesting" results! Just with your little test alone, I think PE will be moving quite a few more DLS-10 subs.

I belive a few will be surprised at your results.

I can certainly understand not trying to push the output to max potential=(audiable distortion or cone bottoming) of the subs, as you barrowed the Sony back.

Thanks for all the work you put into this budget sub mini test.

Geoff

 

[Sebastian]

Hey Steve, May try getting some kick back from PE if your post help move some DLS subs.
Advertisement cost money
:b

 

[Brian Bunge]

Steve,
As I stated above, I've used several of the Dayton drivers before so your results really do not surprise me. I guess you're going to force me to buy the DLS 10" so that I can pull the driver and figure up the tuning frequency of the enclosure! It's really just a 5 minute procedure. Simply grab a screwdriver, remove the screws, remove the driver and measure the internal dimensions. Maybe add another 5 minutes to put it all back together. It won't void your warranty as there's no way for PE to know that the driver was removed.

 

[steve nn]

Well I can truly say it was fun to do except the task of moving my two subs. I see so much advice given on the forum I thought it a good idea to go through with this. I find myself suggesting the Sony when it is called for. From what I have experienced with both subs to this point, now I will be giving my nod to the DLS. Imo it is built better to. This is only from outside appearances I admit but I think the numbers and the sound give us a good glimpse inside this sub to?

Hay could anyone let me know how to format on this? I am in -Enhanced Mode- but to no avail.

 

[steve nn]

Sure Brian I could do that for you no problemo. When I return the Sony I will be picking up my DLS and I will measure it up for you.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Thanks Steve! Feel free to email me directly with all the info or just post here in this thread if you want.

 

[steve nn]

Brian Bunge- Hats off to you for your recommendation of the DLS sub. Recommendation is due to you for bringing this sub to our attention.

 

[Jose G]

Steve,
I'm glad you are as happy as I a with this sub. I was also very impressed with the built and sound that came from this 10' sub. I went out and bought the Radio Shack meter yesterday and am waiting for a test disk from Stryke Audio as recommended by Geoff. As soon as I can, I'll also run some tests on the sub, but I may need some help from the members here as I'm new to all this testing.
By the way, was the Sony you tested modified in any way?
Brian, please post your results as to the tuning and and extension capabilities of the DLS. This has been a great thread!

 

[steve nn]

Hi Jose-- No the Sony was not modified in any way, shape or form. This would detract from the Sony numbers and that would render this whole thread non-informative. I know I really need to get on the ball and order a few more detailed disks but I have seen some strong evidence on the Forum that the THX Optimizer on Star Wars 1 will be very close if not the same as calibrating with another disk. Still it does have many limitations though and I would feel better about calibration with another product.

I really have to admit I was really surprised when I started putting the Sony to the meter. I did each scene five times with the meter stationary in the same location. When the first readings came up I said-- What? This cant be so. I was rooting for the DLS I admit, but I did not think it was up to it.

 

[Geoff L]

Steve
As long as you used and did everything like you said you did, the test was fair.
Regardless if the THX-Optimizer is flawed in some way or not. The test tone for the sub is gona be the same for all when you calied for each sub....
Jose,
The Stryke disc will have some information with it, on how to use it. But the info is some what limited for these new to the game....
You need to find the correction numbers for the R-Shack spl meter ahead of time so your ready with that part once the disc comes. Usually takes about 3-5days less Sat Sun for you to receive the Stryke disc.
Do some searchs of the forum and you should find the correction numbers for the meter, they have been posted many times. They might be archived, I just don't remember. Once you find them, ~{if you can't, email me and I'll send them to you}~ write them down a keep them with your meter.
Once you have all your goodies, let us know and we'll explain about how to go about testing for freq responce in your room. Done wrong, (to loud and to long sine tones & or warble test with no driver rest) and you could toast your sub driver...
Not good, bad deal, Man I'm really pissed now, get the picture....
You will find that moving the sub and then re-measuring it, that your room & sub placement, along with it's crossover-(either the receiver doing it or introducing the sub itselfs crossover into the equatuion) can make a differance in SPL-output, subs frequency responce and how well it all blends together system wise.
It can really make or break it, that is, how good it all sounds together when your finished.
It can be fun too.
There are lots of threads dealing with this topic and others related to it ~{Sub placement, sub freq measurment, house curves, R-Shack~SPL-meter correction values, phase knob or switch, etc}~. So while you wait for your disc, some searchs and reading might help you get a heads up on placement, testing, measuring, & even the eq-ing game once you finally get all your stuff.
Steve
As Brian had mentioned in a thread a little while ago, he could not build a Powered-10" sub at this (price point) and have it sound this good.
Even at his dealer cost he can't!
Yes, he coud build a better 10" sub, but NO WAY not at $99.99...
Generalization:
From Steves basic tests, sounds like it could become the new budget king sub out of the box, with no mods! Better looking, better built, smaller, and better sounding was what I drew from his write up....
Am I out of line here Steve?
Question:
So who is gona max out their DLS-10 and provide the data, room size, placement and freq responce graphs for max spl and extension???
It dose have a warranty you know...
Cheers
Geoff

 

[Jack Keck]

Thanks, Steve. Now I know got a good deal. Mine's out of warranty, so I won't be attempting to bottom it out. Maybe I'll try to make a better graph if I can get my wife out of the house long enough. She doesn't like to listen to the test tones.
NOw to find someone who will compare the budget champ DLS 10 against a Rava, Hsu, or SVS. I kow any one of theses would smoke it. I'd just want to know how noticable it would be at a normal listening level.

 

[steve nn]

Geoff what I would be willing to do is to see what I could get out of the DLS in the "Fly-By" scene. This I would think would give us a good idea? > or the first "Fly-By" in the pod race. I just would want to stay away from the sudden shocker scenes like the Arizona blowing up in Pearl Harbor. Yes your conclusion Geoff on my opinion of the DLS is correct and thanks for the good word in your prior post.
Jack I don't know if this will help you out but running two CT-CHT 15" Velo's stacked at +2db individually=+8db > in the same corner I came out with 111db at -15. I did this a couple-three weeks ago. With a bigger and more powerful sub you will not only realize db increase but you will really notice presence to a much fuller degree and the sub can play many different tones. If a guy stacked a couple of the DLS's in the same corner he would really have allot of sub for the money to be sure. Maybe the most-best- bang for the dollar, money can buy? I know the movie "The Hunt For Red October" very well and I just watched it in its entirety and I was amazed. I do have the sub placed in a new position- Five feet away from seating along the back long wall firing into the couch and it sure does well there. I don't think I missed much at all watching the movie. I did have it running fairly hot though. +12db at - 18

 

[Geoff L]

Steve
You could do that if you like, but it's not nesessary at least for me. Others may be interested though, so if you choose do this be sure to let us know: The size of the room-(cubic-ft), open or closed room, placment of the sub~corner etc, and "distance from the sub to the place your taking the meter readings"....
I, and Brian I belive, are most curious as to the tuning point of the sub! At least I am. Being a slot loaded sub, (same as a port just square) the roll off is steep after tuning.
Simply by measureing the internal dimensions of the cabnit and then measuring the internal dimensions of the sloted port we can tell what the sub is tuned at.
All measurments needed H x W x D...
This sub is more than likely not going to produce 20hz material at any spl, let alone clean and with out a ton of distortion and harmonics.
Those freqs are well below the tuning point I'd imagen and the driver begins to loose control just under the tuning point.
I would also imagan that Dayton has a corner filter in the amp for protection from this and possibly a small amount of boost.
Even still, 95% + of bass in most movies is generaly 30hz and above.
Yes, more and more Movies are coming out with deeper bass, (20's and below), but getting that kinda of freq production is going to cost just a little more than 99.00.
=========>
This is the whole point about this sub, performance to cost, build, size, looks. It seems to score very well on all accounts!
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As Steve's little test session showed, a mighty little performer and certainly will make most smile at what their hard earned $100.00 smakers has just done for their system. It's just hard to belive you can buy a sub that performs pretty darn good, sound better, built better, looks better, and is smaller than the touted budget king, ~{Sony-40}~
For about a month now I've been very curious about this little sub, as a couple of my friends and now their friends have been asking me about a low dollar sub. All are on extremly tight budgets, I mean tight!
I build my own subs and just can't build something for them when they have only 125.00 max to work with.
I have thought of this sub many times, but no one that I know, that really knows bass performance had spoke about it.
I hate to recommened something, if I'm not really definitly sure it's worth it. Thats when I came across Brian metioning listening to it with a set of DIY speakers at a HT meet. He and others were quite surprised at how well it sounded, and in a larger room boot.
So this is my reason for wanting to know so much about the sub and Steves little test in conjunction with Brians comments have me looking to suggest this sub with no regrets.
But,,, I still want to know the tuning of the sub as this will help me to estimate responce in the guys different rooms sizes and corner loaded.
John"s room is tiny:
12'D x 8"W x 7'H One lazy boy and a little drink magazine table, the rest is carpet, HT system, and some movie posters he got FREE from the local cinima.
This little room will provide some serious gain down low. I think even though he listens at -10 under "most" of the time, 1-DLS-10 might be able to handel it with out breaking a sweat from 30hz up, and probley capable of even more clean spl in that tiny room.
Just a guess at this point, as I need the tuning point. Then another friend can run a program sim and see what his room layout will provide for responce and node problems when the sub is corner loaded.
Well enough already Geoff!
Everyone enjoy their DLS-10's, and someone please provide the dimensions asked for by Brian and I, we can then figure the tuning for this little guy...
Hummm never gave that a thought, maybe PE will have the info if I call and ask. Have to place an order for some Mylar Silver sleeving & shirk tube tomorrow, so I'll get a hold of Steve or one of the Tech's and see if can get that info.
Regards
Geoff

 

[Brian Bunge]

Geoff,

Well, technically I could build something similar to the DLS 10 right at the $99 price point, but I'd have to charge quite a bit more for it if I sold it to a customer. I'd rather buy the DLS 10" and sell it to local customers who need a decent sub for a decent price. I wouldn't make as much money, but I'd save a lot of time. Based on the prices that BB and CC charge for any of the "decent" budget subs, I could probably sell it for $300 all day long if I wanted to.

Jack,

Comparing this sub to any that you mentioned would be just plain silly, IMHO. It's a helluva sub, but it'll reach it's limitations much quicker.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

Now if we could get the AudioSource SW-15 in this test, then we can find maybe the best sub under $200 to recommend to the financially challenged HT beginner so we can process them easier into this "cult".