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DLP vs LCD for Projector type home theater (1 Viewer)

BillyH

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
65
Yeah, everyone is right when they say to buy your projector seperatly. My personal favorites are the 16.
9 LCDs. Even if you satay away from net sellers(Though I can not recommend CinemaSource more!) A Sony VPLW12HT will set you back about$6000, lots cheaper then the DLPs. Yes, there is no copygaurded digital input in case some fool actually gets the studios to regulate analog component inputs to second class status, I am willing to bet it wouldn't last. There are millions of these things out there with only analog HGTV inputs and the stink from a PO'd public would quickly fill the nostrils of those winnies in Washington who would fix it pronto. Of course, Lord knows I could be wrong. Is the Sony you are considering a model with a digital video input, and if so, with one that will be acceptable to the potential Evil Green MeaNIES IN hOLLYWOOD? (When will those people ever figure out that not all of us out there are crooks and could care less about copying something, as long as we can get it for a reasonable price? Take CDs for instance. At $20 list, they sit on the shelf, but at say, $7.50, the volume of sales would make up for the price difference and make oodles of happily satisfied customers)Be sure to get a true 16.9 native display, not just for movies, as even now, when most Tv and sports is 4.3, VERY SOON, HD widescreen will be the norm. As for the other electronics, they are important, but again, don,t get talked into the projector thats a compromise, for thier sake. The projector and the screen realy are the most important part. Want an example? Listen to a full bore surrond system while viewing the video on a 25inch screen. Not the same as a theater, huh? Now, watch that flick on a 10foot widecreen with the sound off. Yes something is missing, but it will be more satisfying.
 

James R Seaq

Auditioning
Joined
Apr 3, 2003
Messages
2
Sorry I have been gone so long, this is a tough decision!!!
Here is where I am with the project.

I think the Marantz is too much money@ $ 10,500.00, so it is between the Sharp DT-200@ $ 3,000.00 or the Sony VPLHS10@ $ 3,000.00 also.

It seems to me the Sharp has a clearer picture but, the Sony is 16:9 and I would like to buy a screen I could keep for many years.

I will use the system 50% sports & 50% DVD!!
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
It doesn't mean anything, as you will never actually see those numbers on the screen while watching a movie.
I disagree. I read a post from William Phelps in an AVS CRT vs. DLP/LCD thread. He measured the contrast ratio of his Sony G90 projector, and it was way WAY higher than any DLP/LCD projector talked about in the forum can even THINK about approaching. There was nothing theoretical about the measurement. He measured the actual light coming from the black areas compared to the bright areas.
 

Rob Tomlin

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2000
Messages
4,506
He measured the contrast ratio of his Sony G90 projector, and it was way WAY higher than any DLP/LCD projector talked about in the forum can even THINK about approaching. There was nothing theoretical about the measurement. He measured the actual light coming from the black areas compared to the bright areas.
I never said that you couldn't measure contrast that high. I said that once the numbers get as high as 30,000:1 you will not see that difference in the actual picture while watching it.

In other words, the difference between a CR of 6000:1 vs. 30,000:1 will not make a big difference under actual viewing conditions. The picture will certainly NOT look 5 times better!
 

Gabriel_Lam

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
1,402
BTW, if you're up near 30,000:1 contrast on your projector, you have to make sure you're entire room is painted flat black. Any reflected light will cut that down to the level of digital projectors. Wear black clothes and don't smile very big.
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
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Dec 19, 1998
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10,675
you will not see that difference in the actual picture while watching it.
Yes you will. The difference in black level between a G90 (or my NEC XG135LC) and DLP/LCD projectors is undeniable and quite noticeable (not just measureable).
 

Max Leung

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
4,611
Do you mean shadow detail? Black level on the current crop of LCD and DLP projectors easily match those of mid-level CRT RPTVs now.

RPTVs that do not have true black innards (like my Toshiba TW40X81 RPTV) are easily beaten by an NEC HT1000 DLP projector. I lined the inside of my RPTV with Duvetyne, but of course I had to raise the brightness. It seems my RPTV's gamma isn't the best at low IRE. It's probably internal lens reflection that is messing up my RPTV's black levels too.

I think the big issue now with digital projectors are improper gamma levels. Who cares about black levels if you can't see the difference between 10 IRE and 30 IRE! There goes your shadow detail...
 

Rob Tomlin

Senior HTF Member
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Jan 8, 2000
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BTW, if you're up near 30,000:1 contrast on your projector, you have to make sure you're entire room is painted flat black. Any reflected light will cut that down to the level of digital projectors. Wear black clothes and don't smile very big.
Glad somebody else here gets it!

Thanks for summing up what I was trying to say before, in a much more articulate manner!
 

pradike

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
51
NO CONTEST - DLP is far superior to LCD projectors, and the new Marantz VP-12S2 is virtually equally to the $50,000 CRTs in picture quality for 1/5 the price). It is also a true 16:9 unit, whereas others emulate that mode (some not real well).

I just installed the Marantz in my home theater, and is just got rave reviews from the 7 guests last night at my "christening party" for the theater.

The biggest benefit of this DLP is the truer black-to-white contrast - whereas LCD projectors (cheaper yes) have more dark grays than true blacks - really noticeable in movies.

8,750 street price - an outstanding value.

One last thing - don't underestimate the importance of the sound system as well - If the budget supports it - THX surround is awesome (I use Snell speakers to get the full THX effect).

Within reason - this is a clear case of penny wise, pound foolish...especially if you have to live with an expensive theater that does not live up to your expectations.
 

mark alan

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
620
i'm sorry pradike, but you just sound like somebody who has spent a lot of money and is determined to make sure everybody knows that it is worth it. Not everybody wants to spend money like that.
 

Steve Lucas

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Messages
163
One other possibility you may want to look into...
When I was buying my equipment for my HT, one of the dealers was remodelling one of thier demo rooms and had some equipment available at a reduced price. I bought a Yamaha DXP-1 DLP projector that at the time had a retail price of $10000 for $4800 including the ceiling mount bracket that would have been an extra $300. It came with a full waranty too. I know this option won't be available for everyone, but it's sure worth asking around to see if you can either save some money, or like me, get a projector that would normally be out of your price range.
I also bought the fixed 16:9 screen (Da-lite) that they were using with the projector for about 50% off retail as well.
I also agree with everyone else. Buy the projector you like best and then determine which audio components you like and buy them. Audio preference is particularly subjective. While shopping for my compnents, I listened to some very high priced and respected brands of speakers that I just didn't like (Klipsch, B&W). Everyone has a different idea of exactly what kind of sound they prefer. I finally settled on Paradigm Monitor series speakers for thier combination of sound vs. price. No one can tell you which speakers are the best for you but you.

Steve
 

pradike

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
51
I neither work for Marantz nor paid the $11,500 retail price for their great DLP projector - actually paid even less than the $8000 "lowest price" you mentioned.....

That's not the point.

If it costs you over $10,000 for the 63 Mitz Projection TV, and $5800 for a good LCD projector (with lower contrast), seems to me that capabilities is the issue here - not just price - for the money much better product with much better picture and capabilities (supports DVI for one)...

I was trying to share that you can get a great product for a competitive price if you are willing to do your homework - I even looked at this thing at 2 sites for 5-6 hours before buying.

My 7 recent viewer guests used the words "stunning", "awesome", and "breathtaking" when seeing both HDTV and the Matrix on DVD.

Hoping to share this to steer folks towards a great DLP projector and save some money in the process.

Finally, I also agree that the sound system is no less important, and my Onkyo 989v2 THX certified receiver and Onkyo S800 DVD player with full Snell 7.1 speaker system does it all. You can, again, save money by going with Paradymn or other less expensive speakers...no harm, no foul.
 

Rob Tomlin

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2000
Messages
4,506
My 7 recent viewer guests used the words "stunning", "awesome", and "breathtaking" when seeing both HDTV and the Matrix on DVD.
I have no doubt that is true.

However, there is probably a 90% chance that they would have said the exact same thing even if you were using an LCD or other type of projector!
 

pradike

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
51
Not really....a friend of mine has an LCD projector for about 3 weeks now, and HE said that when he saw mine, it is a far superior picture (better color & contrast) - and HE is going to take his back to the retailer and get a DLP unit. There are several articles in this forum which also point out some flaws in LCD projectors, in terms of comparative weaknesses to DLP.
 

RobS

Auditioning
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
11
Let me suggest one more projector which I'm seriously considering for my new home theater (15X20). It's the Epson TW100 (LCD) - Epson TW100

The specs are very impressive for a street price of 3-4K -
Epson TW100 Specs

My theater has no windows so light is not an issue. Have you considered a 'gray' screen to maximize the blacks? Many opinions on that option.

Because it has been a long time since the equipment has been upgraded, I'm in the market for all new too. But as suggested previously, I'm buying a piece at a time. Considering the Onkyo TX-SR601 with Paradigm Studio 20s or Klipsch speakers (currently have some and LOVE the sound).
 

pradike

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
51
ROB S -

As a fellow Atlantan, I'd want to steer you right...

Looks like the Projector you are looking at is a good alternative in the $4,000 price range - good specs - and DVI connectivity (which is a must to get the true HDTV effect). Looks like you're going with pretty good audio equipment as well (which is equally important for HDTV & surround).

If there is a way you can see this projector in action somewhere locally, I suggest you do it. I did that for my Marantz DLP projector. Your selections revolve around 3 main things - budget, future-proofing the connectivity, and core performance (resolution, contrast, etc.).

Don't underestimate the cost of proper cables either (DVI and other cables are not cheap, but cheap ones are not good). Make sure you price those as well.

There is a company locally called Homewaves (Homewaves.com) which I've used, and can perhaps steer you in the right direction. They support moderate, mid-price, and high-price Home Theater and HDTV implementations. They got everything right for my Home Theater, and the equipment all equals or exceeds my expectations. A local contact is Eddie Landry @ (404-867-2076)- tell them Pete sent you (no, I don't work for them, I'm a satisfied customer).

The one thing I've learned in going down the HDTV and Home Theater road is that you should do alot of homework ahead of time, including consulting with folks like these guys. It will make your purchase and implementation much less full of surprises, and the results much more enjoyable.

Good luck!
 

RobS

Auditioning
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
11
Thanks for the input. Did not think of DVI cable quality issues, but will now. I'll follow-up with Eddie and let you know how it goes.
 

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