DLP or CRT?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Kevin Porter, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Kevin Porter

    Kevin Porter Supporting Actor

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    Hey,

    Well, I shelled out the big bucks for a new Samsung HLN567W and after watching several DVDs on it through very nice component cables, I remain unsatisfied. The color banding, the faux blacks, the screen door effect, the dithering, all of it is incredibly annoying. I'm very much unhappy with it most of the time. Good news: Tweeter has a mighty mighty nice 30 day return policy which has yet to expire. I'm trying to figure out what the alternatives are. Plasma is a no because of the money. LCD is a no because of the extremely not black blacks, so torn between the CRT and the DLP and after seeing the DLP in action, I'm leaning towards the CRT. Can someone tell me if I'm just being hypercritical with my Samsung and that if I get a nice CRT I'll be just as disappointed. I saw Sony's (is it new?) 57WS655 CRT and it looked absolutely fantastic. I know with CRT you risk burn-in with 4:3 content but I've also heard that's highly exaggerated. CRTs also have the edge on DLPs concerning blacks and price. Can anyone point me towards the way of HDTV bliss?
     
  2. RichG

    RichG Agent

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    No, I made the same choice and am very happy with my Hitachi 57X500 CRT. Why, because it just lets me enjoy the movie. The flaws in the newer technology will drive a person crazy and detract from the viewing experience. I can't say if the Sony 57WS655 is the best choice though.
     
  3. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    When I just starting shopping for a new TV, I looked and was almost sold on a DLP but the constant issues that I kept reading about them really pushed me away. I have a fairly dark room too so I am not necessarily the best consumer for DLP/LCD/DILA. That said I was very close to purchasing one. I looked and watched several LCD's to the point where the only one that was acceptable to me was the XBR Sony's and they were mucho $$$. LCD's have similar issues as well. DILA wasn't out yet.

    When I finally decided that I could get a 55-57" CRT for MUCH MUCH Less and all I really needed to deal with is the "burn in" issue. I decided to focus on stretch modes and which were acceptable to me. At that point I made the decision to purchase a Mitsubishi 55413. After some careful Calibration, I could not be more happier. Having seen the Sony and Mits's next to each other calibrated in the same showroom, I preferred the Mits and it had more "tweaking" capabilities. The menus were laid out better to me as well. Just more options overall. That said if you prefer the Hitachi or Sony better then that is your call and your $$.

    In the end I was able to pocket the $1500 difference and I am able to upgrade the rest of my audio system.

    As long as you setup your TV properly, I don't believe burn in is an issue. My friend has been using his sets exclusively for widescreen for years and never a hint of burn in. His sets are calibrated though.
     
  4. John S

    John S Producer

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    CRT Projection is still my favorite hands down.

    CRT Direct View, and Plasma comming in 2nd for me.

    Next down, would be the latest Sony LCD Projection for me.


    After that all others seem to about equal as far as my preferences go.


    Did I even answer your question? I'm not so sure. :b
     
  5. Kevin Porter

    Kevin Porter Supporting Actor

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    I have four concerns with the CRTs

    -Burn-in
    -Viewing angle
    -Reflection in heavily lit room
    -Heavy recalibration?

    The room is question is about 16 feet wide so I'm concerned that people on the couch to the left or someone in the chair on the right won't be able to see as well as me in the centered chair. Am I correct in that fear? Also, I've heard the TV looks bad in a really well lit room. There's windows all around so while most of our viewing does happen at night, will it be unwatchable during the day? Another thing that I've heard is that CRTs require heavy and frequent calibration, once a year even. I was wondering if this was as seriously as it sounded and if I need an ISF calibrator to come out every year or if it's something I could do with a DVE or Avia disc. And finally, the biggest one of all: Burn-in. I'd like to watch everything in OAR as much as possible and that includes plain jane 4:3 cable. Our provider provides HD but after trying it out I've found it's not at all doable. My question is, would it be so bad to watch TV shows in 4:3 and then zoom in for commericals and then go back to pillarbox 4:3 when it comes back on? Also, I have many a DVD in 4:3. (Buffy and a couple of old movies) Would I damage my TV watching 4:3 straight for more than two or more hours? So I suppose what it boils down to is this: Aw shucks. I'm just a simple country boy. Can ya'll tell me about this CRT stuff?
     
  6. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    You do not need to have it ISF'd more than once (if at all). You can get a real good calibration from just the convergence and Avia/VE (takes about an hour or so). I usually check this about once a year (takes about 15 min.), have not had to change it much. The "maintenance" issue of CRT RPTV's is something I hear mostly from advocates of other technologies. It is just not a real issue to those of us who own them.
     
  7. John S

    John S Producer

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    Viewing angle is a valid concern. the best ones only give you about 8' off center at about 10'.

    The glare issue, can be solved usually by taking out the screen protector, so that has to be factored in if you have fears about unintentional damage to it.

    Calibration, generally only needs to be done once professionally. The longer you use the set, the less it will drift in general. Pro calibrations are generally only done after a somewhat lengthy time frame of at least a couple a hundred hours of use if not more.


    Now that newest Sony LCD RPTV, has very impressive viewing angles, I'm not sure how they achieved it. But in a store I went way off center with no detectable picture quality reduction.

    Burn in, is certainly not the problem it used to be. My CRT RPTV does shift the pixels every so slightly ever now and then unperceptively to help guard against this. But my set has also been professionally calibrated too. I just don't have any concerns over this in general. But I do find myself running some 4:3 material on it from time to time, or maybe even at least once per day, but usually because that is what I chose to view not because of burn in concerns.
     
  8. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Just keep it converged, CRT is the cheapest, and still the best display at this point.


    I don't understand this statement, or how it's relevant. Digital projection may be brighter, and so in that sense it may work better in rooms lit more, however this has nothing to do with how the particular picture is made in terms of projection, front or rear.
     
  9. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    That's all I was saying. DLP has the ability to look a little better than CRT in a brightly lit room because it does not rely on CRT's for a light source. Nothing more.
     
  10. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    gotcha, that was confusing at first. This has more to do with brightness, however, than the actual light source. There are dim digital projection devices as well. CRTs are, however, limited in their light output. Digitals vary, so one should pay attention to how bright they are, etc. Too bright is a problem in proper darkened rooms, ebcause your blacks will be elevated. I'm sure you could fix this with an ND filter inside the set, however, if necessary.
     
  11. MannyE

    MannyE Stunt Coordinator

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    WEll, when i first saw the question, I was confused.

    Are we talking FP, RP, or DV?

    Are we talking PQ, convenience, or some other quality?

    Because in my experience so far, for FP, nothing equals CRT for FP.

    IF THE ROOM IS IDEAL. (Pitch black)

    Other than that, (in non-ideal conditions) it's a toss up between LCD and DLP. CRT, IMO, has no place in less than ideal FP situations, since even a little ambient light screws it up (which to me, means unwatchable even for just info).

    DLP and LCD can be seen evenif there is a little ambient light and are good for sports and regular TV, but not movies. For movies, I use a different set of criteria, where LCD and DLP are watchable, but blown away by CRT. (I mean that for movies no ambient light is allowed)

    If you are talking RP then CRT and DLP are both contendors.

    And direct view, of course, CRT is the one and only.

    EDIT: Upon re-reading the original post, and realizing the huge amount of alcohol in my system, I see we were referring to RP. Sorry about all the extra bandwidth....
     
  12. Brian Bowles

    Brian Bowles Second Unit

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    My friend just got a new DLP. I went over to help him set it up. The picture is nice and bright. I just think the picture of my Toshiba cinema series CRT to be better. Is it just me or do others think the same? The dlps are nice but they look pixelated and sometimes the refresh looks too slow in fast action scenes. Although dlps are ligher, take up less room, do not have burn in, and need less maintenance in the long run.
     
  13. James Edward

    James Edward Supporting Actor

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    IMHO,
    No, you're not being hypercritical. Your eyes are fine. The DLP picture does suck. I have seen a number of these sets, and they never look good. CRT RP from any good manufacturer blows away the picture on a DLP set.

    As others have stated, maybe if you have to watch the set in your backyard, or somewhere that light is really an issue, DLP might have the edge. But critical viewing in anything but the harshest lighting conditions will show CRT to still be the best picture available.
     
  14. Michael Mohrmann

    Michael Mohrmann Screenwriter

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    I thought the same thing too until I watched a Toshiba 52HM84 DLP TV yesterday. Best DLP I have seen to date. Very good detail, bright but not overly, and a color balance that closely matched the Toshiba CRT RPTVs in the same store. I didn't see any of the pixelation that you mentioned on the Toshiba, but did see it on a Sumsung DLP and a Mits DLP.

    I have never been a fan of CRT RPTVs. The front screen reflections always drove me up a wall. Even with our friend's CRTs in light-controlled rooms I still pick up these reflections. Most people don't, but for some reason I do. Also, off-axis viewing was not very good with a majority of the CRT RPTVs we have seen.

    Since we have a fairly well lit room (drapes are out - don't ask), half our seating to the side, and a kid who'll have an XBox soon, we have been leaning towards a DLP. The Toshiba is the only one we have seen in the last month+ of auditioning that we would pick up.

    Michael
     
  15. Kevin Porter

    Kevin Porter Supporting Actor

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    I'm rather baffled. Sometime the picture looks good and other times I want to kill myself. I've also picked up on a new flaw, visible color wheel reflection. In those high contrast scenes of bright against dark in Angel, I noticed it and it was horrendously distracting. Also, when people are in a shaded place of right rather in direct light, there seems to be a rather greenish tint to everything. This was particularly annoying when I watched the West Wing characters step in and out of shafts of light. Another thing, why in the world does Angel Season 1 look better than The West Wing Season 2? On TWW, you can see noise in just about every solid color. Is this a transfer problem or a TV problem? It wouldn't seem like it'd be a transfer problem as the trandfer is high rated among review sites and it has a much larger budget than Angel. Is it because the DLP struggles on those fast, fast steadicam walk and talks? I watched Man on Fire on the display the other night and it looked pretty nice. It seems like the DLP handles high contrast materials (MOF, the Pai Mei chapter in Kill Bill) scenes really well but waffles out on low contrast. (West Wing) Check out this spec from the 57WWS665:

    Would this help me in my lit room? Is this a common feature amongst CRTs? My main concerns right now are lit rooms and viewing angle. I don't want it to be where I'm the only one that can see the picture fully. I need to take pictures of my room so I can show you my specific concerns. What would be the best CRT in terms of sub 3K price, DVI input, much above DLP picture quality, and viewing angle?
     
  16. Andrew Grall

    Andrew Grall Supporting Actor

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    Just to correct the spec, there are no degrees in Kelvin temperature...

    Now carry on. [​IMG]
     
  17. Dave>h

    Dave>h Second Unit

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    Hi,

    I thought I would weigh in because, I like you, have a Samsung DLP and also watch Angel and Buffy (no West Wing). I have had some issues with both the Angel and Buffy DVD's on my TV but I find it pretty much confined to these DVD's, especially Angel. I am not sure if it is a transfer issue or what, but sometimes Angel does not look very good. Neverhaving seen the show on regular cable, I don't have a point of reference but I find the DVD 's from a PQ stand point leave a lot to be desired.

    I guess, what I am saying is don't judge your TV simply based on these DVD's. They are not the best thing to judge the TV on.

    I did find that calibrating the TV with the AVIA disk helped the PQ a lot. It also improved the look of the Angel and Buffy DVD's.

    FYI, I have a pretty bright room, with quite a few windows and not very heavy curtains so light is an issue for me.

    Personally, I love this TV and although it does have a few quirks, the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages and was the best of the available options.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  18. Brandon Steck

    Brandon Steck Stunt Coordinator

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    Kevin, the HLP series of DLP TV's from Samsung has seriously reduced the problems you're talking about. The HLP's are noticeably better than the HLN's, which were Samsung's first stab at DLP (correct me if I'm wrong.) Soudn Advice (Tweeter) keeps some old stuff around for quite some time. The HLP's have been out for well over 3 months. You may want to look into returning your set and getting the HLP, which I'm almost positive they make in a 56. Model number should be something like HL-P5663w. This set has uses the HD3 chip (I think). Also . . . I don't understand how a CRT set is better than a DLP. When comparing the two side by side on the same source, it is obvious that the DLP shows greater details such as facial features, football uniforms, pretty much everything across the board. Colors are richer, whites are whiter, etc. I currently have a Mits. CRT RPTV which I'm getting rid of for a Toshiba 62hm84. I've looked at the Samsung's, Mitsus, and the JVC Dila, and like Michael said above, the Toshiba is quite noticeably better than all of them. I think there are a lot of advantages of the DLP other than the brightness when comparing the CRT's and the DLPs, unless you're comparing a tube type CRT. Or did I miss something . . .
     
  19. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Brandon, I don't think your viewing experiences are the best arbiter unless the sets you were looking at were indeed properly calibrated, and in a proper darkened viewing room, which I doubt.

    I don't think you'd find too many people, on PQ attributes *ALONE* that would choose a DLP for video material over CRT, at this point.
     

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