DLP component vs DVI

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Chris Will, Jul 19, 2003.

  1. Chris Will

    Chris Will Screenwriter

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    I keep reading things about how good these DVDs look when hook up through a DVI connection. Thats great but unfortunately my $800 DVD player doesn't have a DVI output. So my question is how do these TV look when connect through a component input w/ progressive scan? I've heard some say to not use the progressive scan feature b/c the TV does a better job de-interlacing then the DVD player. So what would be the point in having a progressive scan DVD player if it doesn't help the picture quality? I'm not going to buy a new DVD player b/c I love the one I have. I love these TVs especially b/c of the no burn-in. I just don't want to spend the money on one if it is not going to look worse than my 32" Wega b/c I don't have a DVI output. Comments please.
     
  2. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    You can get an excellent picture without DVI.

    As far as who has the better de-interlacer, try it both ways, interlaced from player to TV, and progressive from player to TV. See what looks better. It is not unusual for the TV de-interlacer (interlaced input) to do better with non-film source DVD's. I would expect that an $800. DVD player would outdo the TV. For cable TV or VCR, you need the TV's de-interlacer since the TV has to make sure everything is progressive scan before sending it to the picture tube(s) or DLP element which generally are operated at just one scan rate.

    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  3. Chris Will

    Chris Will Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the input. I forgot to mention that my DVD player is a Sony DVP-S9000ES. Does anyone have this player and a DLP TV. I would appreciate some more insight on this matter. Having a hard time finding info about. Just people arguing (this is better, no this is better, etc.) and not explain why.
     
  4. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Chris - There are some general rules, then there are a few exceptions. The exceptions are generating some 'buzz' - but you should keep in mind that these are dealing with specific equipment.

    In General: A progressive-scan DVD player sending 480p to a HDTV gives a slightly better picture than sending 480i (ordinary component). There is a reduction in some artifacts by doing this.

    Exception: The current model Samsung DLP televisions have chips from Farajuda that only work on the 480i input. Farajuda has a lot of experience with high-end video and their chip actually does a lot of good processing so that sending 480i to the TV looks better than sending progressive to it. (The Farajuda chip is not involved in this television if you feed it progressive.)

    In Theory: A DVI cable can give you a better picture than using analog component cables. This would remove the digital(DVD) -> analog (cable) -> digital (TV) conversions which introduce some artifacts.

    In Actuality: While a few DVD players now offer a DVI connection, some people have done a A/B comparison and seen very little difference. This could be because 480 is not super-high def, and it could be because we are dealing with first-generation of 2 different manufacturers implementing DVI. We might start to see a difference when HD cable/satallite box's start offering DVI using 720 or 1080 signals.

    The Exception?: There are 2 DVD players that do up-conversion from a DVD to 720 or 1080 and output through the DVI cable. In theory - this would be a digital source (DVD) and digital up-conversion, digital transmission and remove all digital->analog conversions and remove some inherent issues in the chain of events. In actuality - some people have reported only slight differences when hooking these units up with DVI.


    So DVI is new and in theory a better connection type, but not very visible improvement -- yet. I would not consider selling/changing equipment to get DVI capability at this time.
     
  5. Richard-Tien

    Richard-Tien Auditioning

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    This is a good topic, since one of the issues brought up in the AVS Forums is in regards to the Sammy DLP's poor DVD progressive component output playback. Is the playback of DVD's interlace ouptut through the components to the Sammy that much better?
     
  6. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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  7. Shane Morales

    Shane Morales Second Unit

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    Moved my post to a new thread so as not to hijack this one...
     
  8. Steve Lucas

    Steve Lucas Stunt Coordinator

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    {quote} There are 2 DVD players that do up-conversion from a DVD to 720 or 1080 and output through the DVI cable.

    What two would these be? My FP is HD capable and has a DVI input. I think maybe I could benefit from having this connection along with the upconversion to HD resolution.

    Steve
     
  9. Stephen_Ri

    Stephen_Ri Stunt Coordinator

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    The Momitsu DVD-V880 and the Samsung HD931. Since you have DVI, I would say the Samsung would probably give you a better picture with its Farajuda chip, but I haven't actually seen a comparison of the 2. The advantage of the Momitsu is that it outputs 1080i/720p through both DVI and component, whereas the Sammy outputs these resolutions through DVI only; this matters little to you though since you'll be using the DVI anyway.
     
  10. Sam Pat

    Sam Pat Stunt Coordinator

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  11. Stephen_Ri

    Stephen_Ri Stunt Coordinator

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    DVD's are recorded in 480i, and yes, progressive players just de-interlace them.
     
  12. Sam Pat

    Sam Pat Stunt Coordinator

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  13. Alex Morrow

    Alex Morrow Stunt Coordinator

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    In most cases performing the de-interlacing in the digital domain results in a better picture. Unless you're running a high end line doubler/quadrupler then I would highly recommend a progressive scan dvd player.
     
  14. Sam Pat

    Sam Pat Stunt Coordinator

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    This is really surprising to me.

    Episode II was filmed in 1080p!!

    And we have to resort to getting 480i?! Not even 480p.

    Ouch.
     
  15. Elias

    Elias Stunt Coordinator

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    I will confirm the observation that the 480i output of my DVD player, the highly acclaimed Panny RP82, produces a better picture on my Sammy HLN617W DLP HDTV than the 480p progressive output. The progressive output produces a greenish tint and details get lost in dark scenes.

    Elias
     
  16. Stephen_Ri

    Stephen_Ri Stunt Coordinator

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    Everything is effectively filmed progressively. Film-based movies(all movies except a few recent ones) are not concerened with "progressive" at all, since they are just moving photos being displayed rapidly. Television technology is the only thing concerned with progressive. I'd imagine that since DVD came out several years ago before HDTV's were "mainstream", that the technological geniuses who designed it saw no need for DVD's to be encoded in 480p since the vast majority of TV's would require the player to interlace the signal anyway. That's my guess, but I don't understand the guts of a DVD player so it could be a host of other reasons. Anyone know the exact reason why?
     
  17. Eric Ehedstr

    Eric Ehedstr Auditioning

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    Nubie question -

    I have the Samsung 507 DLP TV and the Samsung HD931 DVD Player...

    Which mode should I set my DVD player to? Im using the DVI inputs.

    I am making a stupid nubie assumption that since the display is all blue the DVI button should also be blue as the 'best setting'. Blue = 720P.

    I also remember reading that my TV really converts everything into 720P (might be mistaken).

    So.. should I set up the DVD player to always use 1080i or keep it at 720p mode?

    Thanks,

    Eric
     
  18. Jason Charlton

    Jason Charlton Ambassador

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    Hi Eric,

    DLP, like LCD is a "Fixed Pixel Display" meaning that it is capable of a single resolution, and hence all sources are converted to whatever your sets resolution is (1280 x 720 in your case).

    Based on this, and the ability of your player to switch output modes, it seems logical that matching your player's output to the TV's input would be the way to go. Any way to eliminate extra processing, conversion, etc. is better in my book.

    -Jason
     
  19. John_F

    John_F Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric,

    Would you mind trying both 480p and 720p from the player and reporting the results (which you thinks look better)?

    I think Jason's comments are perfectly valid, but in general, I would think the opposite case could also be made: let the "cheaper" output device (the $300 480p DVD player) output its "native" resolution and let the Display (the $3000 DLP) do the scaling.

    Thanks and regards,
    John Flegert
     
  20. Bob Maged

    Bob Maged Stunt Coordinator

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    [nitpick]That's Faroudja[/nitpick]
     

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