DIY with JL 13W7 (1 Viewer)

[HTenthusiast]

Has anyone ever used one of these drivers in a HT environment? The specs are very good and they have excellent SQ as well as SPL capability. I am also looking at the Fi, Audiopulse and RE drivers as well. I was thinking of something along the lines of 2-13W7 drivers in a sealed enclosure.....a poor mans Gotham will you. I will be making the enclosure tall and narrow to avoid a huge footprint. I have also been tossing around a PCUltra 13 as well. I listen to rap/metal and the such and my movies are more of the action/big boom type movies. I would just like to build a nice sub that will go deep....20hz and lower. Preferably down to at least 18Hz in room. Thoughts/opinions??

 

[Robert_J]

A lot of people have used the 13W7 in a home theater. The Gotham uses a modified driver based on the 13W7.

Audiopulse (if you can find them for a decent price), Fi and RE all make great drivers. Also look at Exodus Audio and Creative Sound of Canada since they both carry XBL^2 enabled drivers.

If you decide to build your own Gotham, you will need to budget for a LARGE amp and an EQ. Minimum would be the Behringer EP-2500 and Feedback Destroyer. But I'd recommend amps from Face Audio, QSC, Crown or Carvin for more power.

I use a pair of drivers with 15" TC-3000 top assemblies mated with Lightning Audio neodymium motors and powered by an EP-2500 at 2 ohms per channel. With my BFD, I have EQed it flat to 17hz.

-Robert

 

[HTenthusiast]

Who on here do you know of that has used the W7 drivers? Can you give me some links to check out? Everything I've been able to find is car audio related....

 

[Robert_J]

I know of no one here that uses a W7 for a sub. It's a great sub but not a great value. The W7 builds I've seen have been scattered over the years in different forums.

Since you have a huge budget, the Audiopulse Axis does have better performance. If you want something similar then check out Ebay auction 220339989549.

-Robert

 

[HTenthusiast]

How would you compare the Axis to say, a RE Audio MX 15" or Fi Audio Q 15"? I located a plate amp that supplies 1K of power rms into a 4ohm load.

 

[Robert_J]

It depends on your goals as to which one is better. The Axis/TC-3000 series is designed for small, sealed boxes. The Q's will work in large, ported boxes very well. I'm not familiar with MX series from RE.

As for a 1K watt plate amp - have modeled any of these subs with WinISD or Unibox and used 1,000w of input power? This isn't car audio and most subs run out of excursion well before they reach their thermal limits. And if that plate amp is the Dayton model then it really doesn't put out 1,000w.

-Robert

 

[HTenthusiast]

I have not modeled them as of quite yet, but I will be working on that later on today. I have the WinISD beta program. The amp is from Keiga, and it's a line that the now defunct Acoustic Visions used to carry and highly recommended. If this particular amp is not really what it's supposed to be, I could yet use the EP2500 from Behringer as it's very cheap for the power. I know I would have to use some sort of active x-over to impose a subsonic filter of sorts for a vented box. What about QSX amps? Are they any good as well? Some people have complained about the EP2500 having loud fans. If the amp/sub combo is at the front of the room, do you think it will still be reasonably audible?

 

[Robert_J]

The Kiega is a solid amp. Use it.

I'm running an EP-2500 with a 24v quiet fan. I can't hear the fan when watching TV or listening to music. My DVR's are louder than the amp.

QSC are great amps but will cost a LOT more than Behringer.

-Robert

 

[HTenthusiast]

Here's what I have come up with so far.

Driver : Fi Audio Q series 15" dual 2ohm
Vas : 135.0
Qts : 0.49
Fs : 24.90
SPL : 87.70
--
Project by : Gamerguy
Project for : you
--
Number of drivers : 1
Box type : Vented
Box size : 9.058 ft^3
Tuning frequency : 20.41 Hz
Vent : 1 vent(s)
38.96 in length for each
8.00 x 8.00 in rectangle


Relative
Freq Gain SPL
[Hz] [dB] [dB]
5.00 -51.91 76.11
10.00 -26.50 101.52
15.00 -10.33 117.69
20.00 -1.42 126.60
25.00 -0.14 127.88
30.00 -0.06 127.96
35.00 -0.01 128.01
40.00 0.03 128.05
45.00 0.05 128.07
50.00 0.07 128.09
55.00 0.07 128.09
60.00 0.07 128.09
65.00 0.07 128.09
70.00 0.07 128.09
75.00 0.07 128.08
80.00 0.06 128.08
85.00 0.06 128.08
90.00 0.05 128.07
95.00 0.05 128.07
100.00 0.05 128.07

Box dimensions are 18 x 18 x 48 to get me close to above displacement at 9.02 cu ft. I do not know if WinISD takes into account for woofer displacement or port displacement. I am going to assume no. I have another, smaller box as follows.

Driver : Fi Audio Q series 15" dual 2ohm
Vas : 135.0
Qts : 0.49
Fs : 24.90
SPL : 87.70
--
Project by : Gamerguy
Project for : you
--
Number of drivers : 1
Box type : Vented
Box size : 7.000 ft^3
Tuning frequency : 20.41 Hz
Vent : 3 vent(s)
31.23 in length for each
4.00 in round


Relative
Freq Gain SPL
[Hz] [dB] [dB]
5.00 -51.83 76.19
10.00 -26.29 101.73
15.00 -10.60 117.42
20.00 -3.02 125.00
25.00 -1.10 126.92
30.00 -0.42 127.60
35.00 -0.08 127.94
40.00 0.10 128.12
45.00 0.18 128.20
50.00 0.21 128.23
55.00 0.22 128.24
60.00 0.21 128.23
65.00 0.20 128.22
70.00 0.19 128.21
75.00 0.18 128.20
80.00 0.16 128.18
85.00 0.15 128.17
90.00 0.14 128.16
95.00 0.13 128.15
100.00 0.12 128.14

This one is 16 x 16 x 48 to get to 7 cu ft. it uses 3-4" round ports and is a good bit smaller than the prior box.

 

[Robert_J]

Does the Kiega amp have a subsonic filter? Yes - use the smaller design. No - Use the larger design and tune it lower.

None of the modeling programs take into account driver, port or braces. They give you net enclosure volume only. And you will have to account for a lot of bracing. An enclosure that size needs a bunch of them.

-Robert

 

[HTenthusiast]

That amp does not have a sub sonic filter. I am leaning towards the smaller of the enclosures. I may just go with a 12" version instead of the 15". Space is a bit of a concern. How loud do you think the 15" would be in a sealed enclosure with the 1000w Keiga?

 

[Robert_J]

More than most people need. Just one of my TC-3000 15" subs and 800w can get to ear bleeding levels. That's why I use a pair of them.

-Robert

 

[HTenthusiast]

Well, me and the misses have been talking it over and we have been both looking at the HSU VTF3-MK3 sub and wanted to know how loud does it go? It seems like a great bargain if it indeed meets our needs. It seems to have a rather small footprint for a 12" sub too (turbo not included). I'd like to build one but using a pro style amp and not having a sub sonic filter doesn't seem to bode very well for me. Do you know of any other place to find a sub amp that has a built in subsonic x-over? What about other plate amps?

 

[Robert_J]

All of the plate amps from PE have a fixed SSF. You can change it but it requires replacing a few resistors so soldering skills are required. O Audio has a nice plate amp with an adjustable SSF.

There are no pro amps with an acceptable SSF. My Behringer has an SSF settings at 50hz, 30hz and off. I run mine on the Off setting. Elemental Designs has a very nice 2 band parametric EQ with a built in SSF. It's a nice addition to any sub.

I have no idea how lound the Hsu is in your room. Output is room and placement dependent.

-Robert

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

A single 13W7 is going to give an EP2500 problems if you use it in bridged mono mode. The 13W7 is a 3ohm load (dual 1.5ohm VCs wired in series), and a difficult one at that, often dropping closer to 2ohm. The EP2500 can only handle a 4ohm load in bridged mono mode. If you already have the 13W7, you'll need an amp that can handle a 2ohm load in bridged-mono or a monoblock amp capable of handling a 2ohm load.

If you don't already have the driver and you really want to clone a JL design, you might have better luck with a pair of 12W7s mimicking the Fathom F212 design. This would present a 6ohm load with the drivers wired in series, something the EP2500 could handle easily with each driver still seeing around 750w. Two 12W7s can also be had for about the same price as a single 13W7.

If you're not necessarily married to JL, then I'd look at something like a pair of Tempest-X drivers in a larger sealed cabinet, an EP2500, and a an SMS-1 EQ. This would be very close to the Fathom F212 design, though in a larger box, for A LOT less money.

P.S. What happened to the DIY section of this forum? It was dying before the site was redesigned but now it's gone completely? Did everyone migrate to AVS? There's a very active DIY forum over there, included at least a few threads about using JL drivers in HT builds.