DIY Subwoofer concept

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mike_Sharlow, Oct 19, 2001.

  1. Mike_Sharlow

    Mike_Sharlow Auditioning

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    I'm looking at building a HT sub. I've been doing some research and all I have found looks like and, to an extent, sounds like junk.
    My idea;
    Sanded, stained and coated 1/4" White Oak over a good 3/4" particle board.
    Now the fun part, use the front right out of my Denon 2802, into an X-30 into a marantz MA700....get this....into a 15" Cerwin Vega Stroker.
    What do you think?
     
  2. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    That car woofer has a Fs of 36Hz. So if your only interest is loud, but not deep bass then go for it.
    If you chose quality over quantity then there are many better alternatives, but they won't win the SPL shootout at the local car event like the Stroker will.
     
  3. Rich Kraus

    Rich Kraus Stunt Coordinator

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    "I'm looking at building a HT sub. I've been doing some research and all I have found looks like and, to an extent, sounds like junk."
    im a little lost on this one, youve heard DIY designs that looked/souded bad, or were you refering to commercial subs?
    particle board wouldnt be my first choice for the box. most would recomend MDF or a void free ply (baltic birch ply as an example)
    as for the finish, the world is your oyster. if you build a sturdy box you can finish it any way you want. i think the seams will be a bit tough to hide if you use a 1/4 thick ply as a veneer. why not use a 10 mil paper backed white oak veneer? far easier to deal with, and youll get the same grain. i used a paper backed veneer(and some mica) on my 281's with good results. guys arround here have had good results with veneer, mica, heck even paint.
    all your component selections sound fine, but ill be the first to ask why not a tempest? probably the best bang for the buck 15" sub driver available. (or do you have a stroker laying around already?)
    ------------------
    'Till next time,
    Rich (the kite guy)
    My DIY audio page!
    Use your ashtray please, dont throw um on the street. thanks [​IMG]
     
  4. Brian Crowe

    Brian Crowe Stunt Coordinator

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    I built a Home Theater sub using a 15" Vega series 158. I originally looked into the stroker but found that its low end was lacking. For the high SPL ratings they usually focus on the 30-40 hz range and roll off above and below.
    I've been pleased with the Vega 158 however. Although I haven't measured the entire frequency range I know that it will go sub 20hz in a ported 5'^3 enclosure. E-mail me if you wanna talk plans.
    ~Crowe~
     
  5. tim55

    tim55 Extra

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    Mike,
    Listen to these guys, they have a ton of experience. I've used car subs in my home theater before and had good results. The bass was loud and could be felt. On my next sub I concentrated on the low 20's for a frequency response. This sub introduced a new dimension in sound for me, especially in home theater. Do yourself a favor and look for a sub that will produce frequencies into the low 20's
    ------------------
     
  6. Mike Lenthol

    Mike Lenthol Second Unit

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    A 'stroker' is not a speaker, its a mechanical contraption designed to work as a 'piston' to create air pressure.
    Have you actually 'listened' to one?
    [Edited last by Mike Lenthol on October 20, 2001 at 10:38 AM]
     
  7. Rich Kraus

    Rich Kraus Stunt Coordinator

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    ALL speakers are mechanical contraptions serving as pistons designed to move air. its what they are by definition. the stroker does it in an ever so slightly diffrent way (its still a cone, voice coil, spider, basket arrangement). dont get too wrapped up in the marketing hype of any particullar driver.
    i realize its an extream example, but theres some good driver selection info in this thread, and its follow up which i cannot seem to find right now.
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/003526.html
    if you already have a driver, let us help you get the most out of it. if not, let us guide you to information, so you can make an educated purchace.
    ------------------
    'Till next time,
    Rich (the kite guy)
    My DIY audio page!
    Use your ashtray please, dont throw um on the street. thanks [​IMG]
     
  8. Mike Lenthol

    Mike Lenthol Second Unit

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    The only difference speaker manufacturers strive to make the speaker efficient, have great transients and no coloration.
    The Stroker is the worst of ALL speakers out there on all 3 counts.
    The 15" Stroker model if I recall right is rated 1200w RMS, and it would not even move with a MA700, let alone make music. It has an obscenely heavy cone which was only designed to not break apart when an excess of 1200 watts is fed to it. Common sense would suggest that this would not work at all for a home subwoofer.
    [Edited last by Mike Lenthol on October 20, 2001 at 08:06 PM]
     
  9. Stephen Matthew

    Stephen Matthew Stunt Coordinator

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    whoa!!! i am also looking into yusing a stroker 15 for HT use, and mark im afraid your assumptions about the stroker arent too close.. the stroker is very efficient, it is known in the car audio world for being oen of the more efficient drivers in its range.. put the same power into a stryke HE 15 and it wont make nearly as much sound.. or a brahma or a mass.. etc... it is also a very good sound quality sub, capable of excellent transient response.. and it also has a very thin cone, known for breaking apart at the obscene levels it is capable of reching... the cone is actually very thin paper.. as thin or thinner than a shiva
     
  10. Stephen Matthew

    Stephen Matthew Stunt Coordinator

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    whoops.. sorry to bring this topic back up,saw the local date and time thing and assumed it was posted recently... sorry!
     
  11. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    One quick question.............

    Has anyone run this thing in any type of program?

    I entered this beast into Win ISD & ISD PRO and compared it to the Tempest. There was NO comparison. The Tempest ate the stroker for breakfast, lunch, & dinner. I will say there was a 6 db gain at like 60 HZ but who the hell cares. Tim55 said it when he said to look for a sub that can go 20 hz. I am trying to sell my commercial sub and am in process of building my tempest. I have heard other DIY subs vs. commercial & I can't wait to get mine thumping..........
     
  12. Larry Seno Jr.

    Larry Seno Jr. Supporting Actor

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  13. Ches Campbell

    Ches Campbell Stunt Coordinator

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    Larry, I don't think you know what you are talking about. In fact, most car audio speakers are drivers used in home audio. There may be different baskets with different cones and surrounds, but the same companies make home and car audio speakers (not all, but most). For example, JMLabs makes Focal car audio, and the utopia series in each class is the exact same speaker. Dynaudio is another example. Eton made speakers for Diamond audio. Vifa makes Eclipses spekaers. Also, the subs used in SVS subs have the exact same basket and surround as the Eclipse titanium sub. There are so many more examples. Car audio and home audio are not that much different when it comes to raw drivers, so your comment was a little off base.
     
  14. Rich Kraus

    Rich Kraus Stunt Coordinator

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    your point of driver origin is correct, however a tiny diffrence in driver design makes a world of diffrence in sound/performance.
    HT folks and car guys share diffrent design goals, hence the respect issue. whats the first thing quoted by most car audio guys "wow it'l hit xxxdB, cool". i for one am far more intrested in how my HT sounds over all than what dB level it will hit with some specifically recorded test material. heck i had a 12 dB peak at 37Hz i eq'd out. i should have shot for an high spl reading there [​IMG]
     
  15. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    The main difference I see in home vs auto is that in the home we usually talk about how low we can get and maintain both a flat output and reach theater reference levels. Auto, on the other hand (this does not concern the SQ guys, which we relate too), is more concerned about overall db and power handling (which to me is a pointless issue as this is an efficiency issue due to usually box size) without that much of a concern about flat response or depth. I will admit we are arrogant in the HT hobby from the perspective of accuracy over quantity (though we do understand headroom) but luckily for us someone defined a reference point which to me the auto sound industry needs to do (there's going to be a lot of deaf people in the future imho).
     
  16. Ches Campbell

    Ches Campbell Stunt Coordinator

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    I am one of the ones that is in to SQ car audio. But I know what you're saying. The majority is definately after the loudest bass possible, but I hate it just as much as you guys. Some SQ cars, though, sound AMAZING. It is all a matter of preference I guess.

    Later
     
  17. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Chez,

    I think the best SQ system I ever heard was a BWM 840i with Veritas horns under the dash, Veritas 8's in the kick panels and MTX subs/amps in the trunk. It was a completely stealth install and was the most natural sounding system I've ever heard. Because you sit so low in the car the horns were damn near chest high and the soundstage spread across the whole dash as if it were a huge concert hall.

    Simply amazing for an in car system!

    Brian
     
  18. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    You bet! I used horns in both my '69 El Camino and my (then) wife's '70 SS Camaro. Folks were amazed that our vehicles sounded so much better than their HIFI systems. With four speakers, a delay, and fader control, they were ahead of their time. A pity my Mazda has no room for such a system. [​IMG]
    WRT particleboard Vs MDF or BB ply, if combined with something rigid like the oak hardwood, then it's greater damping due to a much higher glue content would be better than MDF.
    GM
     
  19. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    Well Ches, I know there two sides to the car audio world and personally the SQ guys seem to never get any respect (most people only want to talk about loud, but very few talk about clean) imho. I try to at least make a distinguishment of the two sects.

    BTW, my first two DIY subs were based on car woofers (Pioneer TSW31Cs first in 2 cubic foot sealed and later in a compound IB, better than most 12s I heard in a store but not much against my Shivaes) but some of my friends have done great with JL Audio, Pioneer Premiere, and MTX woofers. I still believe like what some others have posted that the woofers designed for home audio usually have the advantage simply because the FS is usually lower with better Qs.
     
  20. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Greg,

    The horns that Image Dynamics and Veritas make are very wide and only 2-3" high so they'll fit in most cars. I have seen instances when the petals were a bit obscured from view in some cars. I also saw one truck where a guy totally changed his dash so that the horns fit in between the dash and windshield, making them both part of the horn. I don't have a clue how that would sound though.

    Brian
     

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