DIY Sub help (was Velodyne or DIY) (1 Viewer)

[Rob Lloyd]

Thanks to everyone here I've decided to save $1,000 and build my 1st sub. Now I've changed the specs a bit of what I want. 1st it was a very small cube. Now I don't care if I can make it tall w/ a small footprint - ie sonotube? and place it near (2-3') the TV.
So what's the best sub I can build, money almost no object (I was going to spend $1400 on a Velodyne), tools and woodworking skills no object either.
I've read so many links and articles I can't tell if it's better to build a sealed enclosure bass cube w/ a 12" Shiva or 12" Titanic or a ported box or a tube or ???
What do I want to achieve you might ask?
Low bass ~20hz
Ability to play loud
Very musical - No mushy or boomy sounds
60% HT, 40% music
Can handle the THX LFE output of my B&K receiver.
So what drivers? What amp? PE 250w or Adire Audio HS500 or?
Enclosure? Tube or cube or?
It does have to be wife friendly so nothing enourmous or hideous. If you all agree a tube is best, is it ok to wrap w/ an oak veneer to match my Klipsch fronts?
I just printed out the Shiva 142.5L RP Shiva EBS pdf. This looks like what I'm looking for. I will do a search on the EBS here but is there something better to build?
Thanks to all who help.

 

[Blake Middleton]

If you want something with small footprint, I don't know if the EBS box is what you want. I just finished building one, and it is a MONSTER! I have it in a corner, but my room is fairly small and it looks big. It does sound excellent though.
Blake
------------------

 

[Rob Lloyd]

It's just a 2' cube isn't it? From the diagram I was looking at anyway. (22.5" actually). That's about the max size I would want to go.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Looking for the smallest enclosure...do a search for the HE15 projects on this board. John sells them as complete kits for well under $1000 I believe. All you need to do is ad a decent amp(QSC,Mackie,ect).
if your sub location is predetermined by WAF...I'd also think about adding an EQ.
TV

 

[Blake Middleton]

Well, if you were trying to get under a 2' cube, then the EBS would be fine. Be aware though that a 2' cube is alot bigger than you might think. Make one out of cardboard or something to see how big it really is, and if it will look ok in your room (if that is a factor for you). But if your max is a 2' cube, then the EBS is probably the way to go. And let me tell you, it sounds awesome!

 

[Dustin B]

Here's what I've decided to do. More or less based off of the Low Q box specs using a Tempest that Dan Wiggin's has spoken of a few times on these forums (which should result in very accurate bass).
You'll need to spend the extra $20 and get a Tempest. Then take the Shiva SBB4 design but scale it up to 170L. That would be outer dimensions of 24"D x 24"W x 22"H plus 4" legs (this is building it with 3/4" walls). Use a full FP4 port kit (17" which will tune it to a little over 17hz) and the AVA250. Or just build a sonotube with a volume in the 160-180L range and adjust the port length accordingly. Result will be (according to LspCAD anyways) a sub with a net volume of somewhere around 155L, a group delay of less than 20ms until under 20hz, a port air speed of less than 20m/s until under 20hz, cone excurion that stays below the Tempests limits until under 15hz and capable of over 100db until under 20hz (with a gradual and steady drop off from 110db starting at just over 30hz that should work well with room gain).
Only problem is waiting for the AVA250 which is on backorder. Anyways, that's what I decided to do and is another option for you to consider.

 

[Bob Sorel]

Another vote here for the HE 15, which can yield outrageously great results in a 22" cube. I own 2 Shivas and 2 Tempests, which are very good performers for the money, in BIG enclosures, so it is not without at least some experience that I heartily recommend the HE 15. The amount and quality of bass that it puts out is downright scary
------------------
STOP DVI/HDCP/5C/DFAST!

 

[Rob Lloyd]

I'll check into the HE15 as well. What size amps are you guys using?

 

[Patrick Sun]

The stumbling block to using the HE15 is the availability. John J from Stryke said that he'll be taking another round of pre-orders for the HE15 in JUNE and they'll most likely be around the $375-$400 range again. If you went with the HE15, you may as well consider PRs if you want a lower tune for LFE. And just remember, the HE15 must be positioned as front firing (not down-firing).
------------------
PatCave ; HT Pix ; Gear ; Sunosub I + III ; DVDs ; Link Removed

 

[Josh O]

Don't be too hard on the newbie questions here...

I've been inclined to build a DIY sub for a few months now, and I've been slowly gathering info.
This thread struck out at me because I think Rob Lloyd and I are looking for the nearly the same thing.
I started looking at the Shiva Applications manual, specifically the 142.5L EBS configuration. I'm confused because I thought this was a ported design (it even says it uses the FP-4 vent kit) but the cut list designates a 14" cut for the passive radiator and mentions no port cuts.
It got more interesting when I then looked at the 142.5L box in the PR Applications manual, where it definitely uses a 15" PR.
Is the 142.5L EBS plan in the Shiva Applications manual misprinted? Is there a correct plan somewhere? Since I've never built a box before, I'm somewhat apprehensive about building without an accurate plan... especially when it comes to the internal bracing.
Which of these two designs (ported or PR) would be better for the specs Rob listed?
ie
60/40 HT/Music
Low extension, reasonably loud
As musical as possible
Thanks for any info!

 

[Rob Lloyd]

I printed out all the Shiva application manuals -sealed, ported and PR. The vented and PR designs look similar in box design and close in response curves. The EBS looks louder and flatter but it's also larger.
The sealed box descriptions mention it being better for music.
I think I'm going w/ the EBS PR design. It's bigger physically (won't actually fit in my original location) but the level and flat curve look great.
I can easily build the box so it's just the parts. At under $500 w/ 250W amp and MDF.
The HE15 looks amazing being the same size but at 2x the cost I'm a little hesitant to do that one. But it does sound appealing. Just wish I could hear one before spending that much. At $500 it's more of a fun experiment. At $1200 the wife might object. Anyone in CT build one? I know the specs are better than a $3000 Velodyne HGS-18 but how does it sound? Can it be built using other less pricey drivers and get similar performance?
Thanks,
Rob

 

[Blake Middleton]

For the EBS plans, don't go by the cut list. The drawings are correct and you should only use those. Except the hole diameter for the 4" flared port should be 6.25" instead of 6.75". I confirmed with Dan Wiggins that the cut lists are wrong and the drawings are what should be followed. Hope this helps.
Blake

 

[Rob Lloyd]

Blake - If I do build the EBS I'm going for the PR model. I don't see a port on that one or am I missing something?
What does this beast weigh in at once it's all done?
Would you build the ported one again or try something else?
-Everyone-
Thanks for everyones help. I'm sure I'll have more questions once the parts arrive.
Since I'm working on another project for the wife right now I won't be starting until another month. This is good - I can get another month of research in and order everything.
-Rob

 

[Jack Gilvey]

If I do build the EBS I'm going for the PR model. I don't see a port on that one or am I missing something?

If you look at your Tempest PR (passive radiator) apps document, you'll see they use passive radiators, not ports.
"The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" , by Vance Dickason, is a good book for a basic understanding of these things.
This site also gives an outstanding overview of various enclosures/alignments.