DIY replacement for dual SVS 16-46CS+?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by David Giles, Jan 12, 2003.

  1. David Giles

    David Giles Stunt Coordinator

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    A little over a year ago, I considered DIY, but finally decided to get a pair of SVS 16-46CS+'s. They're awesome and I've had no regrets. But now I'm going to install a projector and screen, and the SVS's are too tall. I posted them for sale here, then thought I had figured out a way to keep them in the room (by laying them down along the sides of the room), so I cancelled the for-sale post. Well the fact is, they're just not going to work well in this room with the furniture and the floor length black-out drapes just installed.

    Anyway, I guess I'm going to have to get off my lazy butt and build my own subs. I'd like to stick with a pair because of the symmetrical look (one in each front corner under the screen), and because I want to keep the incredible performance that having the dual SVS's has given me. I realize that it might be possible to get the dual SVS performance out of one DIY, so I'll consider that too.

    As much as I like the SVS's appearance, I just don't think I want to try to create my own silo sub. I'm thinking a box with a nice wood finish.

    So if you've read this far, thank you for being patient. My first question is, how would the Adire Alignment 214L Tempest design on Adire's website compare in performance to a single SVS 16-46CS+?

    Also, the 214L cabinet is 37.5" tall with 4" legs. Would reducing the legs to 3" have a significant impact on performance?

    Aside from the 214L Tempest design, does anybody have any other suggestions that will give me similar (or maybe even better?) performance to what I get from my SVS? Again my preference is to build a box that's no taller than 36.5" tall.

    Thanks!

    David Giles
     
  2. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    The Adire allignment doesn't have to be down firing, you can just rotate it, remove the legs and make it front firing. An Adire allignment Tempest should out perform a CS+.

    You could also build subs around the Stryke AV series of drivers. Don't think the Tumult will be feasible, as a pair of those would cost you more in parts than the SVS's did. The PE 12" Titanic should perform similar to the dB12 in the plus series from SVS.

    You could do the Stryke AV12 (very similar but somewhat more capable driver than the dB12) with a pair of 15" PRs. Or you could do the Styrke AV15 with a pair of 18" PRs. Or you could do the AV15 with a flared 6" port. It's been mentioned on another forum that if you order from Stryke the confirmation still lists the preorder prices. If that's the case the AV series woofs are at a very good price right now as well.

    In all cases you can either sell the Sampson or keep it (as it will have enough power for any of the above drivers). I'd look at QSC for a replacment for the Sampson if you decide to go that way.
     
  3. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Since you're happy with the SVS subs here is a crazy thought. Pull the SVS driver, amp and ports (ports if you can, if not just buy a few of those) and build a box with the same internal volume as the current SVS cylinders. Ta-Da! All you have to spend money on is the cabinet material and glue. [​IMG]
     
  4. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    If you're going to that trouble, you might as well sell the SVS intact because you'll get more money and you'll be able to buy better drivers. Stryke AV15 ($200) and Adire Tempest ($150) are the usual recommendations. I think the overdamped Tempest would have very similar performance to the CS+... we don't know too much about the SVS' drivers but they probably have slightly less displacement than the Tempest. A twin-Tempest would be pretty huge though at 450+ liters but would not cost much, and the Samson amp could drive it to absurd levels if you use a subsonic filter to prevent bottoming. A dual AV15 sub with two 6" flared ports would probably cost around $600 and you could make do with a 350 liter box; it would sound cleaner than the Tempest and would be harder to bottom out. (The Samson, if it's 500w stereo into 4 ohms, should be fine.)
     
  5. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    i am going with a dual av15 in a 700l box tuned to 17 hz with 4 4in flaired ports i figure the bigger box gives me 6 more db at 16 hz it rools off a bit to 17 hz then drops off like a rock. just cant wait for my av15
     
  6. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Isn't 700L just a little bit big for a pair of AV15 drivers with their 230L Vas?
     
  7. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    "Just a little" too big? Hah, Dustin! Sounds like that 290L/11Hz Shiva my friend built. It works great, a little underported but it might as well be an IB at that size. I keep telling him to upgrade to a Tempest, put in a wider port and sell me the Shiva. [​IMG]
    (Four 4" flared ports may or may not be enough for the twin AV15s especially if you have an alignmnet induced boost at that frequency).
     
  8. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I'd be looking at 380-480L with a pair of 6" flared ports. Here's a place you can order the 6" flared ports from.
    http://www.newfoam.com/noisekill.asp
    There is supposed to be one other place you can get 6" port flares from to, maybe somebody else will chime in.
     
  9. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  10. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Rockford/lightning audio is where I get my aeroports from. infact I just sold a pair to another member on this forum. They have a 6"dia port that fits 1/4" thinwall pipe.
     
  11. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    win isd gives me a vent mach of .03 i have room to do 5 or 6 but i allready glewed the tube to 1 side of the port. i am going to run them flat no boost with a samson s1000 amp i put flairs on both ends of the port.
     
  12. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    2 6 in ports give a mach of .06 and 4 4 gives a .03 now y would you say 2 6 are beter than 4 4 ?
     
  13. David Giles

    David Giles Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Dustin, the 214L Tempest with 1" legs and the driver on the front would fit great. Do you know where I could see plans for a "Stryke AV12 with a pair of 15" PRs"?

    Dan, I'd thought about salvaging the drivers out of the SVS's, but I just don't think I could do it. I'd rather pass them on to somebody else who'd love them, and then use the cash to buy whatever I need.

    As far as size, I'd kind of like to keep the footprint small (say no larger than the the Tempest 214L - 22"x22") and the height no taller than 36". Also, I'm more interested in pre-designed plans like the Adire Alignment than trying to design something myself. Finding the time to build a sub would be tough enough without having to become a design expert first.

    I've just got to decide whether I want to DIY or stay with SVS. I can sell my 16-46CS+'s and get a pair of 25-31CS+'s and use a port blocker to tune them down to 20 Hz. They'll fit under my screen, have a smaller footprint than most DIY's (I assume), and sound awesome. And I probably wouldn't hear any significant difference.

    On the other hand, this past spring I finished a beautiful shop out back, I've bought some nice tools recently (Dewalt router, jigsaw, etc.), and I enjoy working with wood.

    So please keep throwing out the suggestions, especially for any specific plans that you think will fit my bill.

    David
     
  14. Jonathan M

    Jonathan M Second Unit

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    I'd suggest that unless you really want to go DIY big time, follow Dan's suggestion and build a box out of MDF of the same volume, and drop the driver in it.
    2 reasons why I say this:
    1. It's cheap, and you can't go wrong. If you don't like it, all you lose is the MDF from building the box (and the time/effort - but that doesn't count in DIY [​IMG]
    2. It gives you a chance to make something DIY without having to worry about screwing it up!
    Just a thought.
     
  15. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    (2*2*3.1416)*4 = 50.2656"^2

    (3*3*3.1416)*2 = 56.5488"^2

    That's why. Don't trust WinISD for that stuff. Twin 6" ports will have larger flares and more cross sectional area with less tube area to cause frictional losses.
     
  16. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    SVS are about to introduce box subs. They may take trades.

    Steve
     
  17. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    i think it is
    4*3.141579*4=50.26^2in
    6*3.141579*2=37.68^2in

    you are useing the radious forumla.

    dual 6 in tube has more surface area and less volume than 4 4in tubes. that is what i get and the opsite than what you are saying?
     
  18. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    Dustin's right. The radius of a 6" port is 3", and radius for a 4" port is 2".

    Surface area = (radius)^2 * pi, or (diameter/2)^2 * pi.

    Two 6" wide ports will have more surface area than four 4" wide ports. The volume is totally dependent on the length of the ports.
     
  19. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I'm using the area forumla (which you multiply buy height to get the volume of the tube and which is important for the tuning point), you are using the circumfrence forumla (which multiplied by height will give the entire surface area of the tube that will cause frictional loses and isn't really related to tuning), which also shows I'm correct in saying the four 4" tubes will have more tube surface area to cause frictional looses compared to a pair of 6" ports.
     
  20. David Giles

    David Giles Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey guys,

    I think my last post kind of got lost in the port size discussion. So I was hoping to get a few more suggestions.

    I'll start by defining more precisely what my desires are. I'm interested in "building" a DIY subwoofer, but not in "designing" one. I've seen a few kits, but I think I'd rather start with just a decent set of plans.

    As far as the specifics of the sub itself, I'd really like to go with a box rather than a silo, just for a change of pace from the SVS's. I don't want anything taller than about 35", and the smaller the footprint, the better. I want something that will perform at least on par with the SVS's, but I don't want to scavenge them for parts.

    The Adire Alignment 214L Tempest seems to fit the bill pretty nicely, but since Dustin mentioned the Stryke AV series and the PE driver, I'd love to know if there are any pre-designed plans out there based on these drivers.

    Also, does anybody know if there are more detailed plans (for beginner DIY'ers) for the Adire Alignment 214L Tempest? The basic drawing on Adire's website doesn't go into much construction detail.

    Thanks!

    David
     

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