Display question

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Allen Longcor, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. Allen Longcor

    Allen Longcor Supporting Actor

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    Not sure if this should be in the display section because it also involves my DVD player. Ok, I just got a Philips 30" widescreen CRT (best I could afford and at least it is widescreen =). I was hooking up my component cables last night and I connected them to the ouput on the back that said 480i/480p/1080i which is the naturaly assumed correct input for a DVD player. I get into the manual and start reading. Apparently on this input you can't change sharpness or tint! WTF?!?!?!?! I don't know why philips did this but it has be some good reason for it, I just can't think of one. This output defaults to widescreen (I assume this since this option isn't available in the menu and DVD's appear to be correctly displayed). If I were to use the other component input I could have the other two picture adjustments for proper calibration, but I would have to choose either progressive or 1050i (yeah it's 1050 for some reason) for displaying DVD's. So my first question is: how is double progressive going to work? Will I have to turn off my DVD player's progressive scan if I switch inputs because I'm sure it's probably better than the TV's. Can I leave them both on? This just frustrates me to no end. The picture looks good right now but I know that it's not accurate. I'm not sure I want the TV trying to enhance the picture. 30PW850H99 is the model number. Perhaps if someone owns it they can tell me what they do.
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    "I connected them to the ouput on the back that said 480i/480p/1080i which is the naturaly assumed correct input for a DVD player"

    I assume you meant input....

    The 1050i sounds strange, I think it is just symantecs there. 1080i is meant for HD, the signal is passed through I suppose as pure as possible, but I have to admit, I never knew this display woudl do that.

    Your feeding it 480p via the DVD player right? Seems crazy that it would not let you change basic picture controls from that source.

    There are some others here that use that display, hopefully they will post up with their experiences.

    So when you go to them in the pic controls menu, while the source is playing.. Those options are really grey'd out and can't be selected???

    In the service menu these can be tweeked / calibrated I am sure, but I don't suggest the user muck around in there very much if at all.
     
  3. Allen Longcor

    Allen Longcor Supporting Actor

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    Sharpness and tint are the only ones I can't change on that input (yes I meant input lol). The other three are there (picture, etc). I really don't know what to make of it. I dont' know why they wouldn't let you calibrate those two specific things. They are just gone in the menu. Not greyed out, just completely gone.

    Yes I am feeding the TV a 480p picture, and like I said it looks great, but it would look better and more accurate using Avia if I could change sharpness and tint. I have another set of component cables hooked up to the other input for an XBOX that is supposed to arrive today so perhaps I'll hook it up to that and mess around with it. It should keep my other settings so I can see the differences.

    If someone could enlighten me on the double progressive I'd appreciate it.
     
  4. Allen Longcor

    Allen Longcor Supporting Actor

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    Well I hooked up my XBOX to the TV this morning and the options to user progressive or 1050i weren't there, so if it is being fed a progressive source it's apparently not available. I'll have to double check but I believe that all the pictures adjustments were available though. I'll have to switch my XBOX and DVD player cables and see if that works. I'd really like some confirmation from people that own this model though.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    I rarely suggest this. (Actually never before) but if this is so with this display. Somebody should post up how to go into service mode, and the corresponding values / setting to change for these. I have no doubt they can be changed there per source / input. Ok, maybe a slight doubt, just because I am surprised they are not there anyways.


    I can say on my Philips 60" HD RPTV, they are all available even on HD Component input.
     
  6. Allen Longcor

    Allen Longcor Supporting Actor

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    Yeah it's weird that the input labeled 480i/480p/1080i is missing two picture adjustments. I don't understand why they would do that.
     
  7. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    The 1050i is Philips designation for interlaced line doubling of the original analog 525i source. The option to change the 1050i/Progressive (called "Eye Fidelity" or "Digital Options") is only availible on 480i sources.

    As far as the tint control is concerned, it is disabled on component inputs in the user menu, and adjusting it in the service menu has no effect on the picture. I think this is because a component signal should already have the proper tint setting, since it is the black and white signal with blue and red color differences.

    And for sharpness, this can be adjusted in the service menu in a very round about way, and only for 480i sources. Adjusting this control when feeding the set a 480p or 1080i source has no effect. Putting up the sharpness pattern of Avia when my dvd is outputting 480p, the sharpness of this set seems to be about right.
     
  8. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    Technically the tint control acts upon the decoding of the C subsignal that stood alone in S-video or was combined with the luminance for composite video. After the decoding of the C signal we have the Y/Pb/Pr of component video. Incoming component video skips that stage.

    Technally the sharpness control acts upon analog video and gives results that are more illusory than anything else. It boosts some of the higher luminance video frequencies to make whatever finer horizontal details already present more strident. Zero sharpness (which might be in the middle rather than the left of the range) means flat frequency response. The sharpness control could be anywhere in an analog portion of the video signal path after the comb filter for composite video. If 480p and HDTV go immediately into an A/D converter for scaling to the display's native resolution there would probably not be sharpness controls just before but there may be one sharpness control in the 480i path just before its A/D converter going on into the de-interlacer that in turn leads to the scaler. A process that also gives the illusion of added sharpness and which can be performed on digital video is edge enhancement. It is a lot more complicated than just boosting some analog frequencies.

    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  9. Allen Longcor

    Allen Longcor Supporting Actor

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    Wow, thanks for the info guys, I thought this thread had died.
     
  10. ChristopherDAC

    ChristopherDAC Producer

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    I would suggest that what you have there is a "pure" direct analog input, and that video processing on this display is done via digital techniques. That being the case, the adjustments which just involve the CRT bias and/or analog amplifier stages [e.g. contrast] are available on this input, but other modes are not. This is a good thing, because it means that your video signal is not going through a complex set of processing steps [plus an additional A/D/A conversion, which is never good] and thus has better fidelity with regard to what your player is putting out.
     

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