DISH NETWORK pixelization effect

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by kevin_tomb, Dec 27, 2001.

  1. kevin_tomb

    kevin_tomb Stunt Coordinator

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    I was wondering, does DIRECTV sattellite network have all the same pixelization and digital artifacts that DISH has? I got my DISH system about a month ago and was happy with it for a while until I started to watch it closely. The amount of compression they use is staggering. For a system which supposedly prides itself on picture quality, it looks very mediocre. I had the impression going in that it would be very similar to a DVD in picture quality. Im sadly disappointed. The picture is free of static and ghosting, but otherwise has lots of blockiness and on fast moving scenes looks very blurred. I watched the STEELERS play and almost had to switch to the antenna. The football field scenes of grass and small details looked horrible. I have heard rumours of new satellites being launched to solve the severe compression problems, is there any truth to ?? DSH network says they are aware of some "slight" problems with pixelization on LIVE sports..but they attribute it mostly to bad signal strength and weather....LOL...

    Well sorry to RANT but thanks...Kevin
     
  2. John_Bonner

    John_Bonner Supporting Actor

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  3. Shawn Shultzaberger

    Shawn Shultzaberger Supporting Actor

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    OK, I need to add to this. I too have just found this pixellation and it's driving me crazy. Some stations are worse than others. In my other thread I thought it was my cables but it's Dish Network. I'm not happy about this. If I wanted a bad picture I would have just stuck with cable. I have to renew my contract with them on the 31st and I don't know what to do. Of course they will probably tell me that it's due to weather or my line of site.

    If I were to email them and ask them about their MPEG compression would I get a knowledgeable answer back? Hell, would they even know what MPEG is? I hate those automated answers that most companies seem to be going with these days.

    I just want a nice clean "blockiness" free picture!
     
  4. Sonnie Parker

    Sonnie Parker Second Unit

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    Are you speaking of the wormy looking effect....especially in black areas? It looks like worms crawling around. I thought this was motion artifacts. I have noticed on CBS (east/west coast feeds) there is blurring in sports (such as helments - especially red) but not always..sometimes it's not so bad. I don't believe I ever see much pixelization.

    SP
     
  5. kevin_tomb

    kevin_tomb Stunt Coordinator

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    The effect I see is similar to the look you get when you use a digital camera with fairly low resolution and then blow the picture up fairly large. Sort of a bunch of square blocks that are sometimes easily noticable and sometime dont see them at all. It depends on the station and what is being shown also. The first time I noticed it was on HGTV watching This Old House. They were showing a large plain white wall (living room in a house) and what I saw instead of just plain smooth white was a bunch of somewhat noticable blocks which would sort of jitter and change as the camera moved back and forth as they were describing the wall. On graphics and nonmoving things you hardly ever see it, same with animated shows. I have a fairly decent TV so I know its generated by the satellite or caused by compression of the video signal. My large outdoor antenna shows none of these artifacts or problems when I shitch to it (on local stations obviously) And yes dark scenes have a problem also, I guess a worm effect would describe if fairly well. If sorta looks like the black is moving in patches, like its liquidy or something.
     
  6. Dan P

    Dan P Auditioning

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    I switched from Dish to Direct TV about a month ago. Pixelization is pretty comparable between the two. I found that your picture quality depends more on the receiver you use than whether you subscribe to Direct TV or Dish. Of course, with Dish, you don't get much of a choice.....you're stuck with their equipment.

    Of the three receivers I've tried, I found the RCA DTC-100 (Direct TV) to provide the most pleasing looking picture while the Toshiba DST 3000 (Direct TV) and JVC unit (Dish) looks about the same. I think I read somewhere that the RCA converts 480i to 520p....which may explain why I like this unit most. Then again, others have complained that the RCA looks too soft.

    The only time I've seen standard definition satellite images look half way decent is on small TVs. With good widescreens picture quality is usually pretty harsh as the larger screens expose the nasty effects of compression.
     
  7. Sonnie Parker

    Sonnie Parker Second Unit

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    Kevin,

    I believe you are experiencing motion artifacts. It's a normal thing with Dish on many channels. It's been there for the 6-7 years I've been a subscriber. I've come to live with it.

    I believe pixelization is when the picture actually breaks up to larger blocks (especially in fast moving scenes). I believe this has to do with processor speed. Of course I'm no professional so I may get corrected rather quickly here.

    SP
     
  8. DarrellP

    DarrellP Stunt Coordinator

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    Pixelation is a product of digital MPEG-2 compression and it will NOT go away. It is here even on digital OTA channels. This is what the FCC gave us, we are stuck with it, live with it.
    Dish PQ has gone down lately because they are being forced by the FCC to carry all channels from all of the current markets that they carry locals from. This will add around 200 channels to the already stressed capacity of their satellites.
    They have 2 more sats going up in the next couple of months to carry the locals load and (keeping fingers crossed) they will up the bandwidth on their regular programming so we can get a decent picture again.
     
  9. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    I use DirecTV but I'm visiting my dad and the Bucs/Ravens game is horrible. But not just that, he is actually dropping bits and getting freezes on all 4 locals. Definately losing the bitstream and sometimes dropping bits.

    Now it is the CLEAREST night of the year. No clouds and you could read by the moon. No weather at all. Yet the bit dropping looks like my OTA signals at 45.

    Other SAT stuff is not like this. Now my understanding of DISH was that they used some local relaying rather than sending all locals up to a satellite like DirecTV does. Meaning that locals on DISH have a different path. What we are seeing would seem to agree with that.

    The compression on the locals is horrible and much worse than SAT. And all the freezes or partial picture damage from dropped bits is definately not normal. Are these DISH locals coming OTA or off of 110 instead of 119?

    I don't know DISH since I have DirecTV.

    But trust me, this compression level is unaccetably high and the bit drops are a joke. I've never seen it this bad on DirecTV.
     
  10. Shawn Shultzaberger

    Shawn Shultzaberger Supporting Actor

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    Well, I have emailed them. Here's to hoping I get some kind of warm body response.

    Dare I say it, if they don't have an answer or fix within the next few months I'll cancel and go with Digital cable. Yuck!
     
  11. WilliamM

    WilliamM Stunt Coordinator

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    I have switched to DirecTv with a Mitsubishi receiver and have found the PQ problem somewhat diminished from Dish Network. Unfortunately, Dish and DirecTv are merging so the problem may not be reduced even with more satellites
     
  12. JerryLA

    JerryLA Stunt Coordinator

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    I have occasionally noticed the pixelation you guys refer to but not as often as you describe. When I switched to the Dish6000 and added HD I really noticed it quite a bit on HBO. I called Dish and I'm not sure what they did if anything but have not had the problem since. My ABC, CBS and NBC come from Denver so I haven't noticed the problems recently. We constantly have snow and bad weather here and it does not seem to change my picture quality at all. I'd give them a call and see what they say.

    Good luck.

    Jerry
     

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