Discussion on Rons review of Philips DVD recorder (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

I own the Panasonic RP91 and it plays +RW discs
with absolutely no problem.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Quote:

Link Removed certainly hypes the DVD-R, CD-R/W, MP3, and Windows Media ability.

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

I own the Panasonic RP91 and it plays +RW discs
with absolutely no problem.

Yep. I've seen lots of reports confirming that. What I don't know is if it also plays back DVD+R. (I don't have a DVD+R disc to test with my RP91.) Even though DVD+R is definitely more compatible overall than DVD+RW, there are specific machines (most notably from eg. Pioneer, etc.) which specifically do not work with DVD+R, even though they work with DVD+RW.
Either this is a chance thing, or it is intentional, I don't know which.

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

Here is a Link Removed at CNET.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Interesting review. Everybody is really in the same ballpark at this point, format wars not withstanding. I see they gave the Panny a 7.0 and the Pioneer an 8.0, but some other reviewers have preferred the Panny.

I'm dying to know the exact details of how the hard drive machines will work with the interoperability of 3 formats (DVD-R, DVD-RAM, and the hard drive). I'm hoping for good non-linear editing on the hard drive that can still be output to both DVD formats.

To me the FLi2200 is a doubler, because deinterlacing is a specific subset of functionality. Video-sourced material is not always deinterlaced, but 480 lines every 30th of a second does always become 960 lines every 30th of a second, and that is double. Maybe Progressifier should be a word.

As far as XP (1 hour per disc side) and SP (2 hours per disc side), if you want the absolute best quality you want XP even if the source has reduced resolution. Noisy analog sources are hard to compress, and going from around 8 megabits per second to around 4 is always going to make a difference. If a display is set up well, you will see the compromise, especially after multiple hours of viewing your own homemade DVDs.

Of course, you could always crank up the Digital Noise Reduction on the source or recorder (if you have it), but then you soften detail.

Remember this, these decks are trying to do in realtime (make quality VBR recordings) what is normally done with lots of manual effort on expensive pro equipment: filtering a source, then varying bitrate to fit a target bit-budget without objectionable artifacts. Try to shove a quality detailed laserdisc transfer into a 2-hour disc in realtime and there are compromises made. But hey, the hardware will only get better and better.

The component inputs are worthless IMO. If you want to copy homemade DVDs use a PC and go lossless.

 

[TonyG]

Just to add fuel to the fire. Does anyone have comments about the chart (from Philips) in the following link:
Link Removed
What factual inaccuracies are there in this chart? What advantages of DVD-RAM and DVD-RW are left out?

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

A fix for Philips progressive scan problem MAY be in the works in a few weeks/months. See here.

Just to add fuel to the fire. Does anyone have comments about the chart (from Philips) in the following link:
Philips DVD format comparison
What factual inaccuracies are there in this chart? What advantages of DVD-RAM and DVD-RW are left out?

As expected for any PR from any company, the format comparison isn't entirely accurate, although I'm not in a good position to judge since I own none of the units being compared. However, Link Removed (at Link Removed) may be of interest to you. I warn you, the post has a distinct anti-Philips slant to it, although I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the content of his post, at least at this point.

 

[Alan Kurland]

Ron and others, thanks for your reviews. I've been reading extensively about the 985,and despite some flaws I've purchased it. I'm looking to transfer video, and Lds. Got media from PC Mall (HP dvd+r for

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Eug,
Wow, a lot of interesting info at that site. I was very surprised to see Sony promoting DVD-R/W instead of '+' for both their new Vaio PCs, and that Sony has a DVD-R/W (likely Pioneer OEM) settop recorder in Japan.
Might Philips end up on their own with this format...
Sony ad
Update on RP-62 and DVD+RW. One person on AVS has played +RW on an RP-62 (even though the manual explicity says no +RW, and another person failed at their attempt). We could be looking at a media compatibility issue. I'm starting to have flashbacks to the early days of CD-R when there were so many media/burner compatibility problems...

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Alan,

Congrats! Please let us know how
this recorder fared during your initial
recordings.

Thanks

 

[Dave Moritz]

I would have to agree on a coment made earlier.

"Seems like a waste of technology and another means for the studios to control our entertainment".

Although I realize that there is a differance in bit rate. It would be nice if the next generation of recorders offer this feature in there flagship models. I do believe that one of the reasons why it was not offered is the studio's controling what we can do with our own collections. It is the same lame excuse when every new format comes out that they will loose all this money. This is not ment to negate the fact that there is alot of piracy going on. But does anyone remember what happened to DAT recorders. In order to saticfy the studios they incorperated copy gaurd scemes to the DAT. And after the equipment manufacturers caved in the studios refused to make prerecorded music available for this format. This was all over the fact that it had a digital input and they where paranoid that piracy would go rampet. I feel the because DVD has entrenched itself already and that there are so many titles available. The manufacturers should make them with digtial inputs. And if the studios do not like it what are they going to do, pull all the tiles for that format. I feel that the consumer would be very pissed and the studio for a change would think twice before doing something that drastic. There are alot of good products out there and alot of great movies being put out for us to enjoy. I say let us have some choices in what format we watch it on and what format we listen to it in. It is completly legal for anyone to take a laserdisc or vhs movie that they own an original copy of and make a copy for themselves. It only becomes illegal when you make copies for other people and or sell the copies for money. I hope that digital converter inputs are available soon so I can make dvd copies of my laserdisc collection in DD 5.1.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I am also looking to get a DVD-R for my HT system and would am curious in how Phillips, Pioneer, Panasonic and other compaired to each other. As with most of you here in HTF I would like to have a machine that has the best video and Audio performance for the money.

P.S. Hey Ronald Epstein,

I would like to say, very good job on that review on the Phillips DVD recorder

Keep up the good work.

Dave

 

[Mike Veroukis]

I haven't had time to read this entire thread, however, I can't blame the studios for banning the digital audio connections. However, since they allow component video they should also allow six channel analogue inputs (5.1) as well.
Well, those are my thoughts on the matter.
- Mike

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

I haven't had time to read this entire thread, however, I can't blame the studios for banning the digital audio connections. However, since they allow component video they should also allow six channel analogue inputs (5.1) as well.

Yes, I agree that for copyright reasons, one cannot allow a digital audio input to copy the DTS/AC-3/PCM track. However, six channel analogue would be very problematic. One isn't going to be recording six-channel in analogue on this digital format recorder, and it doesn't seem viable (or necessary) to include a REAL TIME AC-3 or DTS encoder either to replicate all 6 channels.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I see no reason to ban digital audio input.
1) If the source is DVD, the digital audio is protected by SCMS, and the DVD recorder would refuse to copy it anyway.
2) If the source is laserdisc, you still are limited by laserdisc analog, non-amamorphic picture quality, so it shouldn't be a big deal.
3) Professional pirates can capture the digital into a PC and do what they want from there.
Like much of what 'Hollywood' has been demanding lately, I just don't see the logic in it.

 

[Ralph Bru]

I'm glad I read this thread.

I almost bought one today online and didnt hit the submit button as I wanted more info. Thanks!

I'll pass until something in the future has changed and either digital inputs are available someday or a seperate component that will enable us to do this.

its a but too much money to spend on something that can record digital but give us lame analog audio source. blah!

just doesnt seem worth the money after reading this thread, you guys made my mind up. do I really need SW and Indi on DVD when I have the source on LD and a LD Player. seems kind of a waste now that I think of it just to have it on a present format like DVD.

 

[jeff peterson]

1) If the source is DVD, the digital audio is protected by SCMS, and the DVD recorder would refuse to copy it anyway.

Currently, SCMS for CD is implemented such that you CAN make a digital copy from the original but not a copy of a COPY. So, if DVD followed suit you WOULD be able to copy the audio in the digital domain.

 

[Bill Adlhoch]

general question........

will a dvd recorder also double as a CD recorder in the same way that a dvd player doubles as a CD player?

or do i need to buy a seperate cd recorder?

 

[Chuck Paskovics]

Ron,

My 2 main reasons for wanting a DVD recorder are for Home movies and taping tv shows. I tape numerous amounts of tv shows each season just to watch and then record over.

A few questions, 1 for each reason ...

This may be obvious, but I didn't see it in your review or in the specs. I assume there is a programmable timer for tv events? If so, how many events can be programmed and what options are available in the programming?

Someone else in this thread mentioned generation loss when copying dvds. If I make a dvd copy of my home movies, then put that dvd in my dvd player and directly record it onto another dvd with the recorder, am I going to have loss or will it make an exact copy? I would assume it would make an exact copy since it is all digital.

Thanks again for a great review, it's exactly what I was looking for!

 

[Michael St. Clair]

If I make a dvd copy of my home movies, then put that dvd in my dvd player and directly record it onto another dvd with the recorder, am I going to have loss or will it make an exact copy?

Nope, it will have loss.

The way to avoid that is to get a PC burner for making copies of the discs you make with the recorder.