Discussion on Black Holes.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Shawn Shultzaberger, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. Shawn Shultzaberger

    Shawn Shultzaberger Supporting Actor

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    I've always been intrigued by black holes ever since I checked out a book in elementary school explaining the complexities of the Universe. Well then Disney's movie came out and that cemented it for me.
    Now they have almost verified that a Black Hole exists at the center of our galaxy. Very awesome.
    But there is something that I don't understand. For some reason I've always thought that black holes are two dimensional. I don't know why but I have. Obviously they are 3 dimensional and shaped like a sphere. Any matter that makes it's way in to the black hole is compressed and smashed. Yet they have found what they thought to be black holes emmitting X-rays at super high velocities in a jet like fashion in one or two directions. And to my question: If black holes are 3 dimmensional wouldn't the gases or X-rays being emitted be in the same shape as the black hole? Why in a jet? Or, if matter is taken in, in all directions why isn't the radiation expelled in all directions? Or is it?
    I know we have some science buffs so this is why I asked here? [​IMG]
     
  2. Clinton McClure

    Clinton McClure Casual Enthusiast

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    Isn't a black hole a star which has gone supernova and has imploded in on itself? It's been a long time for me...
     
  3. Shawn Shultzaberger

    Shawn Shultzaberger Supporting Actor

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    My science is very, very limited but yes, I think that's close. I believe the star gets so big (weighs so much) that it actually collapses in on itself to form a super dense area where no light can escape.
     
  4. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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  5. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    From the article above:

     
  6. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Your first (respectfully) incorrect assumption is that black holes are two-dimensional.
     
  7. Shawn Shultzaberger

    Shawn Shultzaberger Supporting Actor

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    Jack, exactly! After reading the piece on Space.com is when it hit me that they can only be sphere shaped. But why would the gasses and radiation only exit one or two sides (which is the only way I know how to describe it). Wouldn't they emit in all directions?
     
  8. Shawn Shultzaberger

    Shawn Shultzaberger Supporting Actor

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    When they are able to photograph the Event Horizon I will jump for joy. It should be a most spectacular sight to behold.
     
  9. Bruce Hedtke

    Bruce Hedtke Cinematographer

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    Given that scientists didn't even know that the black holes were emitting gasses and radiation, I doubt if they can explain why they are emitted in such bizarre means for some time.

    I love the study of black holes and I hope that more funding is made available. Black Holes, dark matter, electrons that travel backwards, neutrinos...fascinating stuff. Just to think of the idea that we could harness the energy a black hole possesses is just staggering.

    Bruce
     
  10. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Well, just the idea of a black hole is fascinating, imo. But, yes!
     
  11. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    I believe that the spin of a black hole would be the reason why matter would (theoretically) "jet" out of it.
     
  12. Bruce Hedtke

    Bruce Hedtke Cinematographer

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    But, does it spin, in theory [​IMG] We can't prove they exist yet so assuming it spins, that would go far in explaining the jet patterns. Does it spin? Does it not spin? Does a black hole exist? More fun lies ahead, that's for sure.
    Bruce
     
  13. Christopher Chung

    Christopher Chung Stunt Coordinator

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    I took an Astronomy class at my Jr College, and I learned some very interesting stuff, especially when learning about Black Holes.

    From what I remember, black holes are so dense that they collapsed into "nothing" that is, they microscopic in "size." Also, my teacher gave the scenario that if you were actually caught in a black hole and being sucked in head first, you would see the whole front part of your body eventually be stretched into the black hole, as opposed to "just being sucked into it instantly." Also, another trippy thing was that if you were watching this person being pulled in, you would see them being stretched as I mentioned before, but it was stop infinately because of time being sucked in as well or something that I can't really explain too well. Mind blowing stuff!!

    Hope you guys could understand that!
    Chris
     
  14. Danny R

    Danny R Supporting Actor

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    Max is correct. Like most every other object in the universe, black holes spin.

    The black hole's spin creates a super strong magnetic field. At the poles matter is accellerated to near the speed of light. The excited electrons give off x-rays due to the transition as they fall back to a lower energy state along the way.

    One thing to note however... the particles being expelled from the black holes are not from the interior of the black hole, but rather from matter falling towards it, but that has not yet reached the Schwarzschild radius... the point at where nothing escapes. This is simular to bug that avoids splatting against your windshield by lucking out and getting stuck in the air current flowing over it instead. Rather than a long trip down, they get a light speed jet at a right angle upward.

    As for black holes being two dimensional, this is because one most often pictures them as having an accretion disk. Not all matter falls into a black hole immediately. Much of it is in a orbit which is disk shaped also due to the black hole's spin and magnetic fields. Matter inside the accretion disk can remain so for a long long time, but usually is eventually sucked in because the mass of the Black Hole is increasing and the matter orbiting can't speed up to maintain position.

    But rest assured, the gravity is all around the blackhole, and the point of no return doesn't care which angle you enter the hole from.
     
  15. Kevin P

    Kevin P Screenwriter

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    I would think that black holes spin VERY fast, like many thousands or even millions of rotations per second, due to the angular velocity of the original star being collapsed into a smaller space (think of a figure skater pulling in her arms--she spins faster). The radiation is probably produced by the spinning magnetic field, and is expelled along the poles.
    But then I'm just a computer geek, not an astrophysicist (sp?) [​IMG] But I find these things fascinating.
    KJP
     
  16. Dennis Reno

    Dennis Reno Supporting Actor

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  17. Danny R

    Danny R Supporting Actor

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    Check this link out: Black Hole FAQ
    As for the matter that enters a black hole, it stays there. However eventually Hawking Radiation will allow the black hole to slowly evaporate. The energy level for this is VERY low however for massive black holes (and is not the source of power for the gas jets), and only becomes significant if the black hole is extremely small.
    A black hole with just the mass of our sun would evaporate in just 2*10^67 years, or much longer than the lifetime of the universe thus far.
     
  18. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Shameless plug:

    Please see the thread I just started here, re about the supermassive black hole confirmed at the center of our galaxy. I posted before I even saw that this thread was resurrected (the slow response time at HTF today is posing a problem; there's a micro black hole in one of our servers).
     
  19. BrianW

    BrianW Cinematographer

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    Although black holes are three-dimensional (if you count their event horizons), angular momentum, for whatever reason, is conserved in a plane in our universe. Although a black hole may be spinning, it’s own magnetic field is dwarfed by the magnetic field produced by the matter spinning around it. Indeed, a black hole’s spin may be completely independent of the spin of the accretion disk around it. And, yes, this falling matter generally, but not always, spins in a disk when the black hole is feeding.

    As matter is rent asunder by tidal forces, the accretion disk becomes charged. I don’t think the bulk of the radiation is produced by electrons attaining and then losing higher-energy orbits within the atoms of the accreting matter. Rather, the protons, stripped bare and accelerated to near light speed as they approach the event horizon, give off powerful radiation perpendicular to the plane in which they rotate. If you accelerate charged matter, you’ll get radiation. If you move charged matter fast enough in a circle, you’ll condense that radiation into a jet due to, as others have said, the magnetic field produced by the spin of the charged matter. But this a result of the spin of the matter directly surrounding the black hole, not of the spin of the black hole itself.

    And since it’s been brought up, I think it’s worth noting that matter that falls into a black hole loses all its characteristics (atomic number, density, color, texture, etc.) except for three: Mass, charge, and spin. These are the only three characteristics by which a black hole can be measured.
     
  20. Steve Christou

    Steve Christou Long Member

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    I posted in Jack's black hole thread and only now discovered there was another black hole discussion thread, never mind.
    Personally I don't believe in the concept of Black Holes, collapsing stars becoming black holes, the idea that nothing can escape it, not even light, just too incredible to comprehend.
    Can you travel near enough to a black hole to actual see it, has it a shape, color?
    No sorry I don't believe.
     

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