Discussion & Comparison: 7.1 Post Processing of 5.1 Movie Tracks - Who does it best?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Cliffk, May 9, 2002.

  1. Cliffk

    Cliffk Agent

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    Hi all!
    I'm getting ready to upgrade from a Yamaha RX-V2095 to a new receiver in the $1,500 - $2,000 (street price) range. I have Atl. Tech's Sys 350 (dual subs) plus a pair of their 251.1LR's currently serving front effects duty. Since I have a dedicated HT, I'll have no problem moving the 251.1's to the rear wall. My listening breakdown is 98% movies and 2% music (although never critical listening). I have distributed a/v downstairs; thus, Zone 2 output and discrete volume control and source selection are a must.
    Understanding that DTS-ES and DD-EX material is quite scarce, the thrust of this thread is to elicit opinions regarding various receivers ability to post-process 5.1 movie tracks to a pleasing and exciting 7.1 experience. Again, I don't care about music and I'm not overly concerned with 2.0 or 4.0 post-processing.
    A primer for discussion on this topic:
    One of the oldest and perhaps best respected 7.1 post-processing is Harman's Logic 7. I have experience with the Lex DC-2 (not owned personally though [​IMG] ), and I must say I love Logic 7. Unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow for the purchase of an MC-1 + amp, so I had looked at the HK AVR 8000. However, I've gotten some pretty negative comments from an honest dealer friend of mine concerning build quality, etc.
    On the newer side of things is Cirrus's Extra Surround implemented in the Outlaw and Rotel pre/pros. I'm on the Outlaw waiting list, but will probably not buy one b/c of very poor zone 2 implementation (I've posted on this earlier without much response, but will be following up later with another thread). Having not heard this processing, I would welcome comments from those who have. Also, it this processing implemented in any receivers in my price range?
    Another new 7.1 post processing scheme is THX Ultra 2. This seems to have a great deal of potential and got very favorable reviews in the latest issue of HT mag (Pioner Elite VSX-49TX). The VSX-47TX would be in my price range. Again, anyone with experience with this format please tell me how it sounds.
    Those are the three that I'm most familiar with.
    So, my questions are (in addition to above):
    What other 7.1 schemes are out there?
    On what receivers in my price range are these formats implemented?
    How do the various formats compare?
    Thanks so much for your help and time in responding.
    -Cliff
     
  2. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    I'm pretty sure that THX Ultra 2 is not a post processing scheme. THX-ReEQ (which comes with Ultra 2 certified speakers) will EQ the channels after processing (to equal the presentation in a movie theater). I don't believe it does any sort of mixing or steering of sound information. Are you talking about Dolby Pro Logic II?
     
  3. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    what's so weak about the second zone in the outlaw?
     
  4. Cliffk

    Cliffk Agent

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    Greg R,

    From THX's website:

     
  5. Cliffk

    Cliffk Agent

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  6. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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  7. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    As an owner of the 8000 I'd like to know what issues your dealer friend had with the AVR8000 (just interested). I'll bow down to the fact that the AVR8000 doesn't have the flexibility when applying Logic7 as does the Lexicon products, but the AVR8000 is no slouch. -gh
     
  8. Cliffk

    Cliffk Agent

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    Greg H,

    He said that they had experienced an abnormally high number of quality control issues with the 8000 (and the entire HK receiver line-up). He mentioned things like audio dropout, losing memory settings, bad/dead amp channels, etc. Based on these quality issues, he just advised me to steer clear of it. I'll have to say it disappointed me due to my bias toward Logic 7.

    How has your experience been? I certainly haven't ruled out the 8000 entirely, but I am a little apprehensive about the concerns he raised.

    Take care,

    Cliff
     
  9. Al_Reb

    Al_Reb Agent

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  10. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm very happy about my AVR8000. I don't regret purchasing it for a minute. I'm also jealous of Al_Reb's multi-room setup. [​IMG]
    Cliff has your dealer friend actually seen or heard the AVR8000?
    Ain't she beautiful - look at all her purtee colors [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Cliffk

    Cliffk Agent

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    Glad to hear of the positive experiences you all have had with the 8000. Yes, my friend has heard the 8000 being a dealer of the unit. He was not commenting on the sound quality of the piece, but rather was cautioning me on the possibility of having problems due to the experiences he has seen.

    As I said, I haven't totally ruled it out. To get this disucssion back a little more to the intent of my thread, I pose these questions to you 8000 owners: First, are you using it in a 7.1 set up? Second, how does its version of Logic 7 compare with other 7.1 post processing formats? Anyone compared to the Pioneer Elite's THX Ultra 2 7.1? To Sherwood's 7.1 proprietary processing, etc.?

    -Cliff
     
  12. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Al_Reb has it running in a 7.1 setup. I, on the other hand, only have it running in a 5.1 setup. I have not heard any other 7.1 surround formats - sorry.
     
  13. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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  14. Cliffk

    Cliffk Agent

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    Camp,

    While not having a catchy name to go by, the Sherwood Newcastle R-963 does have a 7.1 matrix mode for 5.1 tracks (according to this month's S&V review). That's what I'm referring to. After all, L7, CES, THX Ultra 2 etc. are all 7.1 matrix modes. And that's what I'm after, who does this matrixing (or post processing) of 5.1 movie tracks the best? Whose proprietary adaptation is the best?

    -Cliff
     
  15. Dave E H

    Dave E H Supporting Actor

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    I just upgraded my 2095 to a Pioneer VSX-49TX. I got it a week ago, but for various reasons didn't watch an entire movie until tonight. note: don't have my new SVS yet, so that's gonna skew my opinion even more after tomorrow.

    At any rate, THX Ultra 2 is IMPRESSIVE. the 2095's front effects are pathetic in comparison. Don't get my wrong - I dearly loved my 2095, but the combo of MCACC auto calibration and the THX Ultra 2 processing for 5.1 soundtracks just kicks much booty. We were watching a flick with several 'wind blowing' sequences and the sound was so smooth and the pan between the speakers was effortless.

    I can't speak for the comparisions between the Pioneer & other 7.1 schemes, but it's night and day different/better than the 2095.

    Note: I kept all my speakers the same and did the same thing with my front effects that you are talking about - pull 'em down and use them as the rear surrounds.
     
  16. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    You can check out another review of the Sherwood Newcastle R-963 @ hometheaterhifi.com.
    R-963 Review
     
  17. Al_Reb

    Al_Reb Agent

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  18. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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  19. Al_Reb

    Al_Reb Agent

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    Greg, nice pics.
    "sarcasm"
    Looks a little vacant back there. Ya need to hook up some more stuff.
    "sarcasm"
    [​IMG]
    Camp, try these, ¿¡£¤‰Ž€±”“Ø·ÞŒÆÅÐ
    ž‡»«Ç¹²³¢¼½¾•°’‘ ¶ø¥þ®œæåßðƒ©ªº †¬…÷›‹µ™¸çק
    [​IMG]
    heh heh, If I told you how I can do these, you would lose all respect for me.:b
     

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