Direct from Hollywood: Widescreen DVD releases under the gun! Here's the Answer! (1 Viewer)

[DavidEC]

I know this is going to sound strange.. but....
My mother does not mind the wide screen not filling the full screen of the TV..
_BUT_
She wants to know why is she forced to only have "BLACK BARS".. why not an image such as the "MASKING CURTAINS" used at a local theater which are shades of dark red or dark blue.. but just not "BORING BLACK"
May be if there was some way to adjust this feature... Not so many people would mind the image not filling the screen.
You have to also remember how few people have their TV's adjusted to the correct colors and image over scan size.
--David

 

[PatrickM]

Education has to be the only way to go. How can these home video departments think pan and scan is the only way to go when their film departments and now even their television production departments are all filming in a widescreen aspect ratio. Look at how many shows are being shot and shown in widescreen these days. Last year it was only ER and now its even Angel (from the WB network no less).
And why are they shooting these shows in widescreen? Not only because it shows more but because HDTV (even though slow in progressing) is coming down the pipe and last time I looked the aspect ratio wasn't 4:3.
And the issue about widespread acceptance of DVD being bad is way out there. If not for widespread acceptance coming this quick do you think we'd have virtually every new DVD release anamorphic let alone the variety of movies we want? If this was a niche market like LD then we'd probably have a lot less to watch that costs us a hell of a lot more so we have to want the general public to want DVD. But, we must try to show them what they should be looking for when buying DVD's.
Patrick
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My DVD Collection
Patrick The 69th most popular name for boys according to the Social Security Administration.

 

[KeithAP]

I am a little confused. From everything I have read, player and software sales of DVDs are going like gangbusters. Retailers and studios are making nice money. What is (insert retailer name here) going to do? Stop carrying DVD software because SOME of their customers don't get what OAR is? If Walmart decides they will only carry P&S titles their selection will be terrible and they will loose customers to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. The way I see it, they(retailers) simply don't have a choice. They must stock what the studios make available. Why would movie studios care if the retailers complain? They have a hot product that a lot of people want. Besides, shouldn't MOVIE studios care about the presentation of their MOVIE'S??
The cynic in me thinks that the studios are just looking for an excuse to not sell OAR content for reasons unknown. Maybe they want everyone on a pay-per-view model and see OAR as a selling point if its not available anywhere else. Who knows?
While I understand that large retailers have a lot of power, the scenario as currently described doesn't make sense to me.
-Keith

 

[Jeff]

If studios have no interest in putting a P&S vs Widescreen demo on DVD's then I have to wonder if there isn't another reason why they want to go P&S only.
Jeff

 

[richard plumb]

I think this is an important transistion phase. Clearly widescreen TVs are growing in popularity in the US. At some point, the majority of new set sales will be 16:9. At that point, there will hopefully be less pressure from retailers about widescreen versions.
So the studios just have to hang on for a few years until 16:9 sets build up a bigger market.
As for the 16:9 pan'n'scan problem - I think that will be less complaints from J6P about the bars, becasue the bars will be much smaller.
And I think the pan'n'scan on the fly idea is a good one. If all J6P cares about is filling their screen, then fill it with any old crap.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I'm all for declaring war - - on everybody.
There are 20k of us now, and we all have PC's. I'm sure that the majority of us have printers.
1. When a P&S only movie comes out, we write them and complain. A section could be set up here with the names and addresses of the studios, and even some sample letters, so a simple 'copy and paste' wouldn't take that long.
2. As for the stores that sell the P&S's. Write them too and let them know that you will no longer be shopping at their store. (How are they going to know when you're using cash?). Tell them to write the studios to let them know that they have lost a customer. Put their addresses in the same section of the HTF.
3. The same goes for the TV's. Write again to all stores that sell just 4:3's and tell them that you'll return when they carry widescreen sets.
4. Write the TV manufacturers and tell them to get the 4:3's off of the market. $3200. for a widescreen 32" set is way past sick. I can get at 65" widescreen for less.
5. TV. The same goes for the widescreen prime time shows. Let's get a list up of what is not in widescreen and start sending letters out.
Except for No. 1, we could do this every quarter. It'll drive them nuts!
Glenn

 

[Rachael B]

" Theater is life. Cinema is art. Television is furniture." -Patty Wentz-Daly
Television is furiture....People who are not audio-vidiots would mostly agree with that statement. I have explained widescreen to my cousin and her hubby. They don't care! They just want their screen filled. To them television is furniture. If the screen is not filled, it's broken.
I think it's a ridiculous statement that it's too expensive for a studio to make both versions, if that's what they care to do. DVD is incrediably profitable. This assertion doesn't hold water with me so well.
Every month I pay a monthly charge on my phone bill for tone service. It's grossly unfair! It costs the phone company money to continue to serve the few people who have pulse phones. Don't laugh, well do laugh, I know people who don't pay for tone service! They flip the switch to pulse to dial out. They're free to use tones for surveys, menus, whatever, at the flip of the switch.
I wonder how many widescreen converts would emerge if pan'n'scan discs cost more than widescreen? Maybe they should? I'm going to be very peeved if the studios use this to up the price of wide-screen releases! It sure seems, that if anything, any price increase should be on the lap of those who demand P & S, not me.
Besides, these little plastic covered discs are just too profitable. The very notion that it's too expensive to customize them for both adiences anyway, is a bit far-fetched.
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Rachael, the big disc cat! "...Mandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink water..."
AFI Film Challenge, hey I've only got 1 to go!

 

[Sean Moon]

David...I have a 4x3 set...I cannot afford a 16x9 set for a while, and DVDs dont look bad on them. They look a thousand times better than a VHS or a pan and scan DVD. By saying you want OAR, but not the black bars, you are both helping and damning our cause. I want OAR only...I will buy nothing else. I dont mind the black bars. In fact, I dont even notice them. I simply notice that I have an entire film on the screen in front of me. Simple as that.
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[CRyan]

Pissing on J-6-P is not the answer. Simple fact is, they are demanding "full screen" content to such a great extent that Wal-Mart and the like are listening. However, I don't think they listen to me when I complain about not having widescreen. Why? P&S is the norm to these people - widescreen is the aberration.
The directors must get some control over distribution and the studios must demand preservation of the art. As long as P&S is available, the local J6P will buy it over widescreen.
I know several people that still have not bought a DVD player because the majority of films on DVD are released widescreen only. These people DO NOT CARE about film as art. They want their 27" 4:3 screen filled up. On screens this size, it is hard to read subtitles, to make out faces, and follow the action. The majority of these people sit 7-10' away from these smaller sets because the room is a living room and not a home theater. Hell, it's not even a TV room - its a living room or den with a TV in the corner. Yeah they spend plenty of time at home watching TV, but it is simply not that important to them. Friday and Saturday nights are movie nights, and they want an easy form of entertainment that requires little thought to unwind after a hard week at work. It is not art - it is entertainment. What is so entertaining about a slit of an image?
They want to be able to see the picture without squinting at the fairly small sets sitting so far away - relatively speaking. Full screen and its blown up image is the only real way for these people to enjoy their "films." They don't so much mind the smaller black bars (1.85:1), but they hate the large black bars and slit of a picture encountered with 2.35:1. They moan at the screen and bicker with their spouses, as the image does not enlarge after the beginning credits come to an end. "You mean this is going to be this way throughout this entire movie - I have half a mind to take it back to the store right now!" They hate the small image they are being forced to watch. There is nothing good about it as far as they are concerned.
They end the movie with headaches from squinting - telling themselves "they will make sure they look more closely before they rent another DVD." "Movies should fill up the screen so that you can actually see them." Their kids agree and they turn in for the night upset that movie-night was ruined.
When talking to the neighbors next door, they discuss the movies they have seen recently. One is quick to complain about last night’s movie their family watched on DVD. The neighbor completely agrees about the atrocity that is widescreen. "How can people watch movies that way,” they agree in unison. They want DVD's to be available in both formats. If not, they would rather go to the VHS isles. Yeah, they don't sound near as good, but the larger picture is worth it - "at least we will be able to see it."
We can explain till our hearts bleed how widescreen provides a more true theatrical experience - the art of the film is preserved and provides more image to enjoy. The director’s intent is allowed to present the film as art, allowing people to see the framing and work involved with each shot and angle.
Not here - your argument is falling on deaf ears. These people cannot see art at 10' away on a 27" set with a 2.35:1 image. It's 4:3 only for these people - it will be difficult to convince them otherwise.
This is an important fight. It will not go away. If this continues, there will be a time when you cannot rent widescreen and you will not be able to buy it day and date with the pan&scan release. Rental windows will prevail and widescreen movies will be left for another day six months later. If you are lucky, a widescreen version will be available someday. This is neither a joke nor an overstatement. Thinking otherwise is not realistic.
16:9 TV’s are being sold, but are a long way off from becoming the norm. Do you think these same people are currently shopping for a widescreen set? These people may not be collectors, but together they comprise a larger market than us. Many of those that prefer widescreen will still buy P&S if that is the only option. This makes the P&S market huge! Don’t kid yourself. We are a small minority, collectors or not.
This is not an alarmists view – this is hard fact. DO NOT buy non-OAR discs. If you do, the P&S market just became on person larger.
C. Ryan
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http://www.elitestoragedesigns.com/RyanOAR.bmp

 

[Wes]

******Player generated P&S*******
I'm sure some how the technology exists to take a widescreen image and generate a P&S version with out placing the two on the disc. People (J6p the subhumans

) will not care if the picture is perfectly framed or of the quality of the enhanced widescreen version.

Education has to be the only way to go.

I have talked to my J6p brother till I was blue in the face about P&S and Widescreen and he still hates the black bars and the fact they are cutting the heads and legs off. I'm sure each of you here have hit your head up against the same wall with people you have spoke with. He will never appreciate the OAR of a movie until 16:9 completely replaces all 4:3 set in his house. Even then there will be black bars showing on a lot of widescreen movies. That is why player generated P&S is the only way to solve this problem.
Just my thoughts on this matter!
Wes
[Edited last by Wes on October 09, 2001 at 04:53 AM]

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

I agree with others here that simply educating Joe Sixpack will not bring us the results we desire. The fact is, most of these people couldn't care less about aspect ratios or artistic intent. They just want their TVs filled. Show them the difference and they may be surprised, but more often than not, they won't care enough to do anything about it, and certainly not enough to seek out and demand widescreen movies like we do.
That said, I don't think any of us have to worry about widescreen going away completely. Before I got into DVD, I bought widescreen VHS tapes. While most movies were P&S only, I could always expect certain films to get the OAR treatment. I believe that the studios know that a market for widescreen movies exists and they want to cater to that market to sell their movies to the most people possible. This must be the case if they are willing to release widescreen versions of films on DVD--the old format of choice for Mr. Sixpack.
The real battle as I see it will be to make sure that every film receives a widescreen release in some fashion. For some genres, like comedies, family titles, and chick flicks, this may be a hard sell, but it can be done. It must be done.
And to any studio gurus who may be reading this thread, think about this: DVD has grown at an unparalleled rate. No other home audio or video format has taken off like DVD has. Within four short years, DVD players have penetrated over 20 million households in the United States alone, and that number doesn't include DVD-ROMs or Playstation 2 game consoles. Chances are, 2001 will see more record sales for the format on both the software and hardware fronts. All this has occurred with widescreen DVDs as the standard viewing format. If people don't like letterboxing, they sure as hell are not telling you that with their dollars. Sure, some people will drag their feet on the OAR issue and complain to places like Wal-mart, but you can't please everyone. DVD is a success *because of* the widescreen format, not in spite of it. Don't cater to the lowest common denominator. Do what's right and release movies as they were intended to be seen--in widescreen.
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-J.Fo
"Why do I always get a warped one?"

 

[CaptDS9E]

I wont by anything not in its OAR either. My family (including grandparents)can tell the difference so how can other normal people not. If i remember correctly the entire reason for dvd was to have both versions on 1 dvd. Now they say they dont like doing it. Well it was one of the key points of dvd when it started years ago, so the studios should just do what dvd was supposed to do in the first place.
capt

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

Why don't the studios take advantage of DVD's capabilities, and start making the widescreen and pan-and-scan available on the same disc, the way most of the discs were when the format was first released? This is an acceptable compromise for me, particularly since DVD-18's are a reality.
It pisses me off when I see a title like The Mummy Returns which had 2 separate editions released, when it could have simply been a DVD-18 with both the widescreen version and pan-and-scan versions on opposite sides of the disc.
Neil
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"Conspiracy theorists don't live on the same flat Earth as the rest of us." -- astronomer Stephen Maran

 

[JonZ]

I dont know why the studios even listen to these people-widescreen is the future-in about 10 years you probally wont even be able to buy a 4:3 TV Set anymore.
As soon as 1:78/16x9 TVs are more affordable, they wont be able to keep them on the shelves.Ive wanted one for 4 years but cant afford one.
Slowly people are coming around.A guy I work with who drove me crazy 8 months ago about how he hates the black bars on his TV screen now refuses to watch a movie unless its in its OAR.
The solution is easy-dont give them a choice-they cant have pan&scan if it isnt available anymore.
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Visit My Pathetic WebPage
"....With that in mind,I humbly add my own prophecy of
what the dawn of the new millennium shall bring forth-
one thousand more years of the same old crap" Jose Chung

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Hot button issue...as expected. And we all have our varying opinion and solutions. I for one agree that berating the mainstream consumer will not win the fight. I happen to think it won't be much of a fight at all. Widescreen/OAR will remain a viable option for many, many movies, if not all on the DVD format.
1) WS only, sales will drop slightly
2) Both, cost more, but sales more than cover costs, and no complaints as long as they are correctly labeled.
3) P&S only, much greater loss in sales, and MORE complaints
It's quite simple. We are far more passionate about what we want than the average consumer. He gets slightly miffed, but as said before, he doesn't care as much as we do. Look at Willy Wonka...I have no doubt that was a test-case. They lost. The directors/talent want what we want. Rip on Pearl Harbor if you want, but Michael Bay is discussing WS on his DVD release...discussing and displaying. And you know that will be one of the biggest movies this Christmas season. As long as we don't buy P&S, the profits lost due to NO P&S available will prevent that from being an option. The worst we might be facing is dual releases. I am not saying the threat is real. I agree with writing letters and education. I don't agree with going crazy, and blaming the mainstream consumer. Don't waste your time with parents and people over 30. Just teach the kids and you'll be all set!

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Tom Boucher]

I have over 370 DVDs, I have at least another 50 on preorder that will be released before year end.
none are p&s.
if widescreen goes i will not buy another dvd again
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My DVD Collection

 

[Ryan Spaight]

The comparison to car transmissions earlier is spot-on. The vast majority don't really care about driving as a pleasurable acitvity and just want to go from point A to point B. The extra work of driving a stick is just that to them, extra work. Meanwhile, there's a small core of driving enthusiasts out there who hate driving "slushboxes". The end result is that 90+% of cars in the US are sold with automatics, and getting a stick is impossible in most models.
Widescreen is the same deal. Most people don't care about art, they want to watch a "flick" on their 27" TV. Explaining "art" and "director's intent" to them is like explaining the "driving experience" to most drivers. It's not that they are stupid and don't "get it" -- they simply don't care.
I'll vote with my dollars (I've never purchased non-OAR before in my 13 years of buying movies, and won't start now), but I'm afraid our votes (and dollars) are relatively puny.
Ryan

 

[Ross Waite]

I have to agree with the comments made by Keith Plucker. If there is so much angst over the presence of both widescreen and P&S, lets just drop the P&S.
Seriously, if Wal-Mart et al want to sell DVDs, they should sell the widescreen version. If they choose not to sell DVDs, so be it. Trust me, someone else will. The same goes for the rental houses. Rent OAR or not at all. Without an option, they will fall into line.
As for those who either don't know or care about OAR...they will either "see the light" or go rent the VHS tape.
Also, are we to believe that the studios have not made a profit by selling OAR DVDs? I can assure you they have not been sacrificing the almighty dollar simply to make us happy.
I believe this battle for OAR represents the single biggest threat to our hobby, and should be a call to arms for the HTF. If we are content to sit and watch P&S, we should do nothing. If you want to preserve widescreen, please write letters and emails to the powers-that-be stating your preference for OAR. I don't see what else we can do. It is time the silent majority was heard.
-Ross
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[DavidEC]

One of the things that you all forget..
Examples;
My mother loves watching movies in widescreen..
... but hates the black bars!
She wants to know why she can not change the color of these bars to a dark red or dark blue?
Much like the screen masking curtains used at most of the local theaters.
You have to remember that so many people watch DVD's and videos in general watch them on 27" or smaller TV's, which are five years or greater old.
My stepbrother purchased a DVD player and a 'RF' box but mainly uses the player as a CD-AUDIO player and not for DVD's, and only rents movies.
For every one of us that really enjoy our home theater setup there are 100+ others out there that might only watch a DVD once a month.
I work 3rd shift.. and of my 60 coworkers, I am the only one that even owns a DVD player.. ten of them don't even own a working TV, and working 3rd shift don't have the "time" to watch (as they stated .."waste time"..) with "TV".. shoot many of my coworkers did not even know of the events of 09/11 till they were at work that night.
--David

 

[Jerry Gracia]

Looks like the days of the small widescreen selection are coming back.
Oh how I look foward to that!

My last hope is that premium priced collector's edition DVDs talored to the enthusiasts continue on.
P&S will dominate again...it was inevitable. It will continue on to the future with 4:3 formatted to 16:9.
Anyway...when 30-40 dollar widescreen editions come to pass...we'll see who the real enthusiasts are around here...
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