Digital vs Analog External Inputs on my 4800

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mike Lindsey, Dec 9, 2001.

  1. Mike Lindsey

    Mike Lindsey Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have a Denon 4800 and a Panasonic RP91 DVD player (192khz/24 bit). Just recently, I started playing some of my 5.1 DD music DVD's (James Taylor Live at the Beacon Theater, YES Live at the House of Blues and Fleetwood Mac's The Dance) and have always played these thru the Digital cable from the DVD Player, and the Denon set to Auto. Just for the heck of it, I decided to switch to the External Inputs and OH MY GOD, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! [​IMG] One of the reasons I have never tried this is I thought the DAC's in the Denon were superior to the Panasonic's. Am I wrong here?
    Using the External Inputs, there is so much more separation between the instruments as well as it being so much more dynamic. I am also hearing much more sound coming from the surrounds than I am from the digital cable. Do I have something set wrong for this to happen or is this how I am supposed to be playing them? I just thought the External Inputs were for the DVD-Audio discs only. The one area where the digital cable may have an advantage is the bass. It seems there is a lot more bass while in DD 5.1 versus the analog inputs. Can someone also explain this? The 5.1 DD version seems a little more muddied where the analog version is more balanced. If anybody has any input on this I would greatly appreciate it.
    BTW, Here is my equipment list:
    Hitachi 43UWX10B HDTV (16:9)
    Denon AVR-4800
    Acurus A200X3
    Panasonic DVD-RP91K
    Dual CS-5000 Turntable w/Shure V15V-MR
    DBX 3bx Series III Range Expander
    Mains - Klipsch Chorus II (Oiled Oak/Acurus Amp)
    Center - Klipsch KLF-C7 (Finished Black/Acurus Amp)
    Surrounds - Klipsch Chorus I's (Finished Black/Denon)
    Surround Back - Klipsch RS-3's (White/Denon)
    SVS 20-39CS Sub w/Samson S700 Amp
    Monster HTS-3500 Line Conditioner
    Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box
    Monster M-500 Component Video cables
    Monster Datalink 100 Digital Coaxial cables
    Radio Shack Gold Series & AR for all other audio interconnects
    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  2. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The external inputs lets you balance the speakers just like,the digital inputs,make sure you do that before you draw any conclusions.
     
  3. Mike Lindsey

    Mike Lindsey Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Lewis,

    I balanced the channels on the RP91 as well as the 4800. Does anybody else have this combination and if so, can you tell me how you have them setup? I would be real curious how you are listening to 5.1 DD music...

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  4. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mike,

    I guess I'm surprised to hear this. I have Denon 3801 and Sony C555es SACD changer. While the 555 analog is slightly better I didn't think it was an "Oh my God" difference with CD's in stereo.

    So I guess the questions is, Is the Denon 4800 that bad or the Panasonic that good? How do you have the bass redirected via the Panny vs the Denon? Sounds like you might be running the Panny large all around.
     
  5. Mike Lindsey

    Mike Lindsey Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gil,

    Thanks for the response. Although I have plyed a few CD's using the analog external inputs, they did not sound any different than using the digital audio cable from the DVD player (I do not own a CD player). However, DD 5.1 music DVD's sounded much different, and much better, except for the LFE. I only have one DVD-A disc (Fleetwood Mac Rumors) and it sounds outstanding using the anolog inputs as well (as it should).

    I have some very large speakers (Chorus's all the way around), but have them set to small in the Denon and the RP91. There is no crossover settings in either machine, so I am assuming a fixed crossover of 80hz to my 20-39CS via the subwoofer out on my Denon. Not sure how it directs the bass using the external inputs. All I know is the SVS isn't working as hard as it is with the digital cable. All I know is everything seems to be crisper (more lifelike), the rear surrounds are being utilized more and there is better instrument separation (and vocal separation) using the analog inputs.

    I even checked it against a DTS music video (Eagles HFO) and the vocals on Seven Bridges Road just blew away the DTS version. Not sure what's going on here but I'm sure I must have something setup wrong on either, or both machines for this to be this way.

    If anybody has any other comments I sure would like to hear them...

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  6. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maybe you have some kind of dynamic range "nighttime viewing" function or something switched "on" by accident in the Denon? They should sound very similar. When I A/B my Technics DVD-A10 (similar to the 91 but with better audio and worse video) with my external decoders (Onkyo ED901 and Millenium 2.4.6) I can barely if at all tell the difference.

    Check the bass management also.
     
  7. Mike Lindsey

    Mike Lindsey Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Philip,

    When you say "check the bass management", what do you actually mean?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  8. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Make sure that the RP91 and the Denon are doing the same thing (same crossover freq if possible) and that your sub volume is the same for test tones in both.
     
  9. Mike Lindsey

    Mike Lindsey Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Philip,
    Thanks again for the reply. There is no adjustible crossover for the Denon (80hz) and I'm not sure about the RP91 (can't find anything in the manual) using the analog outputs. I have calibrated the Denon using VE and RS SPL meter, to 75db for all speakers (including sub). The RP91 only lets you calibrate the center and surrounds off of the mains. You do this with their internal test tones which I have done at a 75db volume. Unfortunately, you cannot calibrate the sub with a test tone but there is an adjustment for it, and I have it set to it's highest setting (+6db).
    Any other thoughts?
    Mike
    Edit: I just moved from Springfield back in March. Lived there for over 20 years and worked for Dewberry and Davis, in Fairfax for the last 19. How's the weather there? It's hotter than Haiti down here. [​IMG]
     
  10. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. Mike Lindsey

    Mike Lindsey Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Guys,
    Without realizing it, I never set the EXT-IN mode on my Denon and therefore, the volume was much louder using that mode versus the DD 5.1 and DTS modes. This is because my Klipsch speakers are so efficient (The Chorus mains and rears are 101db @ 1/w/m). My settings using the VE disk and calibrating to 75db are the following:
    FL__Chorus II.. -12
    C___KLF-C7..... -9
    FR__Chorus II.. -12
    SR__Chorus I... -10
    SBR_RS-3....... -1
    SBL_RS-3....... -1
    SL__Chorus I... -9
    SW_SVS_20-39 -7
    With the EXT-IN mode however, I decided to set everything back to 0 on the RP91 and make all the adjustments on the Denon. To reach the same 75db SPL, the bass had to be pumped up to +5. That's a 12db difference versus the digital cable! [​IMG] The volumes are now right in line with one another and the bass is putting out about the same output regardless of input mode. Believe it or not, I still like the analog inputs more than the digital but there is not quite the difference there was before. [​IMG]
    Thanks again for all your help on this matter...
    Mike
     

Share This Page