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Digital Video Essentials or Avia???

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Scott Goldsmith, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. Scott Goldsmith

    Scott Goldsmith Stunt Coordinator

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    What would you all recommend I get? I heard great things about the Avia calibrator, I currently have the older version of Video Essentials and it works pretty good, just want something updated and better for HDTV's. I have a Mitsubishi WS-65869 and would like the best thing for it, along with something good for calibrating my audio setup.

    Any info would be awesome!
     
  2. Jean D

    Jean D Screenwriter

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    I know there are other threads very similar to this question, but I pretty sure DVE is newer than Avia. Ive seen and used both and I prefer DVE personally.
     
  3. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    This has been discussed in the past, and I own both. I use Avia about 95% of the time, because I owned it first, and and most familiar with it, and like the navigation. Without using the navigation card and going directly to the pattern you want on DVE, it is a royal PITA. Because I use an HTPC, DVE isn't that hard to navigate either, because I can just go directly to the pattern I want, but if you have a DVD player where it's a little more difficult to do this, it's annoying. If I'm calibrating other people's sets, thus from a DVD player, I always use Avia.

    If you already have VE, I'm not sure you *need* to get a newer disc, though I'm not familiar with the content of the older VE.
     
  4. Scott Goldsmith

    Scott Goldsmith Stunt Coordinator

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    My current VE disk is no for HDTV or widescreen formats I guess, the new DVE seems to be suited for newer HDTV's and has newer filter tests or something. Just wondered if DVE bettered the Avia disk? Thanks for the input fellas!
     
  5. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Neither are DVE/Avia high def sources of course, they are DVDs.
     
  6. Scott Goldsmith

    Scott Goldsmith Stunt Coordinator

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    Shit, you're right, sorry about that, I wasn't thinking [​IMG] It's more for widescreen tv's, the old one I have is not, and it only has the one blue filter.

    I may get the DVE since it's a newer realease, but damn, I keep hearing that Avia is better for some reason.

    I hate this crap [​IMG]
     
  7. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    I wouldn't say either is necessarily better, but obviously I've preferred Avia, and enjoy using it more than DVE. Newer isn't so much a factor, IMO between them. Run a search on them and read, and there's also a good comparison in the primer between the two I think. Other than the most advanced users(which would probably use both), the consensus I hear, and I agree with, is that Avia is easier to use. DVE is a touch cheaper, though. But I feel more comfortable recommending Avia to people.
     
  8. alan*T

    alan*T Extra

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    I have a similar question.

    I already have DVE. Is there any reason to get AVIA too? I have a H77 projector to calibrate.
     
  9. Paul-D

    Paul-D Stunt Coordinator

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    I use Avia, and it works great!
     
  10. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    I have Avia and DVE. I prefer DVE only because it has many blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white patterns, and a nice video demonstration segment. But it is a big pain to navigate! I wish it had the menus of Avia.

    If you only have a CRT display, I think Avia would do everything you need. But for a digital display, DVE is better.
     
  11. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    I should add that Avia has convenient gray scale IRE windows. I don't think DVE has them. The IRE windows are a must if you are using a colorimeter to fix grayscale tracking on your display.

    In short, get both if you are planning on serious tweaking...
     
  12. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Why do you say this? This seems like an incorrect conclusion that you've drawn. Specific reason(s)?
     
  13. Jim Mcc

    Jim Mcc Producer

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    Which one would be better to use with my X1 projector? The X1 has separate settings for red, green and blue. Will either allow me to set these separately? I have the Sound and Vision calibration disc, but it only allows settings for color and tint, NOT separate red, green and blue, so I currently just leave them at the default setting. Any advice? Thanks.
     
  14. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    Chris, it's the lack of blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white patterns that makes it a bit harder to calibrate brightness and contrast of a digital display, using Avia. That's my only real issue with Avia.

    I guess I should amend it to say: You should get both. Avia for the convenient navigation and IRE windows, and DVE for setting brightness and contrast without clipping. Saying DVE is better than Avia would be wrong, as it would imply that you should only get one over the other. [​IMG]
     
  15. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    I don't agree with your statement that you need the BTB info to calibrate blacks on any display. While BTB/WTW informaion may well be helpful in assessing the system's performance, you should be able to set black correctly with Avia on any display. I find the variations of the moving bar patterns on avia allow the user to get the black level correct for very specific needs on certain types of displays. On DVE you're limited to just using the pluge pattern pretty much, which due to a higher APL I find useless for anything but seeing whether my system is clipping the BTB bars.

    On DLPs, for instance, all you need is some full-black material frame, which is available in patterns on both avia and DVE, and you can easily use dithering to set the black levels *extremely* accurately to the absolute maximum of the display.
     
  16. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    What about the white-than-white stuff? If I used Avia, I think I would have been crushing the IRE100-IRE112 (I'm assuming 112 IRE is the maximum) range on my DLP/DVD player. As you know, unlike CRT, DLP can easily clip both ends of the range.

    I find it much more convenient to use DVE for BTB calibration however. The pattern I use has the gray bars with a white dot at the 7.5 IRE and 100 IRE spots. Really handy if I choose to have absolutely zero dither at exactly below 7.5 IRE - but is this what you mean by too high an APL? I believe there is another pattern where it is a grayscale gradient, smoothly going from 112 IRE down to zero, but I cannot be sure. Theoretically it should be handy for adding a smidgen of dither just below 7.5 and above 0.

    If I use Avia, I just use the black window, and increase/decrease the brightness until I just see dithering, right? That's been my understanding. I do find that there is some interaction in the other end of the scale...occasionally it may clip the 100+ IRE areas - usually a sign that my DVD player or PC is doing something funky to the video levels, or my contrast is set too low on the DLP.

    Anyways - maybe we should get together and make our own display patterns and encode them ourselves. [​IMG] I'd love to have a pattern with a 0 IRE bar (grayscale value 1) next to a .5 IRE bar (grayscale value 2). Then set the DLP projector such that there is a tiny bit of dither - although this may not be possible with a regular 6 segment color wheel implementation. But it would be nice. [​IMG]
     
  17. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Max: On DVE, if you navigate into, i think it's title 12, there are a couple patterns with black, and the 3 black bars. You should adjust your DLP such that the blacker than black bar is not visible, the black background is adjusted to within one click of the presence of dithering. The other two bars will be visible, and you'll see the dithering there. You can also go to the send of many of the titles, including this one, to see a full frame of black, but usually not that necessary on DLP, since things are easy to set with the dithering.

    There's also the ramp pattern on DVE that is useful to see if your video chain is clipping below 16, or peak whites above 235.
     
  18. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Oh, and on the ramp, the steps at the furthest edges are BTB, and peak white. They are smaller steps, so if you see a half-step of white above the last full box-thing, you are preserving peak whites. If you just see one larger box of white at the end, then the last half-box is being clipped.
     

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