Digital hopes hit reality wall for Ep II (1 Viewer)

[Paul Jenkins]

I’ve seen digital projection in the theater, and I think it looks nice. However, like Terrell, you make a flat out statement that isn’t really true. NO digital technology yet matches the resolution of film, not 35 mm, and ESPECIALLY not 70 mm. It’s not even CLOSE. When THAT day comes, then yes, I’ll agree that digital will have truly caught up with film and be ready to fully replace it in every respect.

it isn't all resolution, certainly you understand that. improper print feeds, print degregation, etc., etc., all contribute to the 'real world' w.r.t. theaters and how good a movie looks. DLP theaters suffer from very few of the problems which plague traditional film projection systems and produce, on average, a better picture and experience for the moviegoer. If you want to talk absolutes, you are correct, but the world, and especially your local multiplex, is not about absolutes, it has to factor in real world problems with film, projectors and setup/config.
And that is why I'll be seeing AOTC in a DLP theater, I know that the quality and presentation will be better than most other projections of the film in any other theater I see it at...

 

[RobertR]

it isn't all resolution, certainly you understand that. improper print feeds, print degregation, etc., etc., all contribute to the 'real world' w.r.t. theaters and how good a movie looks. DLP theaters suffer from very few of the problems which plague traditional film projection systems and produce, on average, a better picture and experience for the moviegoer. If you want to talk absolutes, you are correct, but the world, and especially your local multiplex, is not about absolutes, it has to factor in real world problems with film, projectors and setup/config.

And that is why I'll be seeing AOTC in a DLP theater, I know that the quality and presentation will be better than most other projections of the film in any other theater I see it at...

I readily agree that DLP has the advantages you mentioned, Paul. It still can't match film at its best, though. I started what turned out to be a very long thread on this subject some months ago, when I compared digital projection shown at the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences in Los Angeles with a 35 mm film presentation at one of the best theaters in the Westwood area of LA. The film had the digital beat in EVERY way. I realize that the typical movie theater doesn't always show film at its best (and I also realize that Los Angeles kind of spoils me for film, since the presence of the moviemakers themselves tends to give us the best of the best), and the truth is I won't mind saying goodbye to film when digital matches it in resolution, so we can hopefully say goodbye to typical film problems without introducing new ones.

 

[Bill Slack]

Ike:
http://www.maxivisioncinema.com/
It's 48fps.
More frames = more printing costs. The opposite of what DLP would give the studios. Digital seems the way to go to me -- but not like this. It needs to be much higher resolution and support higher frame rates. Shooting for almost 35mm quality isn't something I want to see. A nice 4000x2500 fixed pixel display running at 60fps though: That would be nice.
If it's an imitation of a medicore 35mm print, forget it (not saying it doesn't have some advantages, I just don't see why any theater would pay, on a large scale.)

 

[Paul Jenkins]

RobertR, we are in agreement I think. The problem I have is very, very few theaters in my local area have prestine showings of films. DLP has distinct advantages in these situations. Obviously it isn't there yet in the most ideal of conditions, but again, that happens very rarely, and in only select areas/theaters. If you live in those areas, I'm a bit jealous

 

[Terrell]

It still can't match film at its best, though.

Sure it can. DLP will eventually surpass film. And there won't be any dirt or hairs on the print ala film. High definition 720p will smoke film, if done right.I can only imagine what 1080p would look like.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

High definition 720p will smoke film, if done right.

720p is not even close to most filmstocks at even 35mm, forget about 70mm.

A lack of noise and damage is cool, but it does not create detail where none exists.

 

[Terrell]

Yeah! I really love those dirty 35mm prints that end up at the theater. Sorry, but high definition is superior to film Michael. I've seen 720p and I've seen 35mm film. Hi-def wins. My DVDs are better than some of the film I've seen at movies. The dirt, dust, and hair on the print is ridiculous at times.

I'd take 720p hi-def over film anyday. And don't even get me started on 1080p.

 

[RobertR]

The dirt, dust, and hair on the print is ridiculous at times.

It's ridiculous if theater owners allow it to be so. A good theater doesn't. Properly projected film easily surpasses ANY current video format.

 

[Terrell]

I love the word in your quote that matters. Is capable of, but rarely is. More than half of the movies I've seen have enough dirt on them to be obscene. I'm sick of the dirt, hairs, and splotches rolling across the screen. I'd far perfer to watch hi-definition at home rather than film. But if you hadn't, that's fine.
Yeah, and you're telling me that it's possible to keep film completely dirt and dust free? Yeah, right. I've been to numerous state of the art theaters. Not once have I seen a completely clean print.

 

[RobertR]

It's unfortunate the theaters in your area are so lousy, Terrell. Hopefully they won't take the same sort of shoddy approach when they get around to showing digital where you live. By the way, you shouldn't confuse "dirt" with "lack of resolution". The two are not the same.

I'd far perfer to watch hi-definition at home rather than film

So since you have no digital projection in your area, and you find film awful to watch, I assume you'll wait until AOTC is out on DVD or even Hidef to watch it?

 

[Terrell]

I don't forsee digital here soon. And the theaters here are state of the art, picture and sound. So I have no need for your pity. But film will always have a problem with dirt and dust, because it's on film. Digital is not. I've been to Mann's, smae thing. Dirt and dust on the print. It's not just theaters in my area Robert.

 

[RobertR]

And the theaters here are state of the art, picture and sound

But not in upkeep, apparently. I see extremely clean prints in Los Angeles. Nary a bit of dirt or dust to be seen. That comes from proper management, not technology.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

If there is dirt on the print, it's bad handling by the theater that causes it. A new print ships in with virtually ZERO dirt on it. Go to www.film-tech.com and browse the Film Handlers forum to find opinions from people in the booth. They'll tell you what you need to know about film vs. digital as well as proper film handling technique. Lots of good info over there.

 

[Troy LaMont]

Is there anywhere I could obtain a list of the 20 or so theaters that use Digital Projection?

NORTH AMERICA
ARIZONA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harkins Arrowhead Cinemas 18
16046 N Arrowhead Fountain Center Drive
Peoria, Arizona 85345
USA
Tel: 602-222-HARK (Tickets)
http://www.harkinstheatres.com
CALIFORNIA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMC Media Center 6
770 North 1st St.
Burbank, California 91501
USA
Tel: 310-289-4262 (Tickets)
http://www.amctheaters.com Edwards Irvine Spectrum 21 Megaplex
65 Fortune Drive
Irvine, California 92718
USA
Tel: 949-450-4900
http://www.EdwardsCinemas.com
El Capitan Theatre
6838 Hollywood Boulevard
Los Angeles, California 90028
USA
Tel: 800-347-6396
Tel: 323-467-7674
http://www.elcapitantickets.com AMC Mission Valley 20
40 Camino Del Rio North
San Diego, California 92108
USA
Tel: 858-558-2262 (Tickets)
http://www.amctheatres.com
AMC 1000 Van Ness
1000 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, California 94109
USA
Tel: 415-922-4262 (Tickets)
http://www.amctheatres.com Loews Century Plaza
ABC Entertainment Center
2040 Avenue of the Stars
Los Angeles, California 90067
USA
Tel: 212 840-7761
http://www.loewscineplex.com
FLORIDA
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AMC Pleasure Island 24
1500 Buena Vista Drive
Lake Buena Vista, Florida 32830-1305
USA
Tel: 407-298-4488 (Tickets)
http://www.amctheatres.com
ILLINOIS
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AMC South Barrington 30
175 Midlands Dive
South Barrington, Illinois 60010
USA
Tel: 847-444-FILM (Tickets)
http://www.amctheatres.com
KANSAS
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AMC Studio 30
12075 South Strang Line Road
Olathe, Kansas 66062
USA
Tel: 816-363-4262 (Tickets)
http://www.amctheatres.com
MASSACHUSETTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
General Cinema Framingham 16
22 Flutie Pass
Framingham, Massachusetts 01701
USA
Tel: 508-628-4404 (Tickets)
http://www.generalcinema.com Show Case Cinemas Randolph
Route 139- 73 Mazzeo Drive
Randolph, Massachusetts 02368
USA
Tel: 781 963-7330
http://www.national-amusements.com
NEW JERSEY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edgewater Multiplex Cinemas
339 River Road
Edgewater, New Jersey 07020
USA
Tel: 201 840-0699
http://www.national-amusements.com
NEW YORK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMC Empire 25 Theatres (2 screens)
234 West 42nd Street
New York, New York 10036
USA
Tel: 212-398-3939FILM (Tickets)
http://www.amctheatres.com Loews Cineplex E-Walk
247 W. 42nd Street
New York, New York 10036
USA
Tel: 212-840-7761
http://www.loewscineplex.com
Clearview Ziegfeld Theatre
W. 54th Street,
New York, New York 10019
USA
Tel: 212 765-7600
Link Removed
OHIO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cinemark at Valley View
6001 Canal Road
Valley View, Ohio 44125
USA
Tel: 216-447-7900 (Office)
http://www.cinemark.com/schedule/283.asp Showcase Cinemas Springdale
12064 Springdale Pike
Springdale, Ohio 45246
USA
Tel: 513 671-6884
http://www.national-amusements.com
TEXAS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cinemark at Legacy
7201 Central Expressway Ste #100
Plano, Texas 75025
USA
Tel: 972-527-4385 (Office)
http://www.cinemark.com/schedule/251.asp
MEXICO
TLANEPANTLA, ESTADO DE MEXICO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cinemex Mundo "E"
Centro Comercial Mundo E
Blvd Manuel Avila Camacho, No. 1007
San Lucas Tepetlacalco, Tlanepantla, Estado de Mexico 54055
Mexico
Tel: 52-5201-5805
http://www.cinemex.com
CANADA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Galaxy Theatres at Conestoga Mall
550 King St., North, Waterloo
Ontario N2L 5W6
Canada
Tel: 519 883 8843
BRITISH COLUMBIA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Famous Players SilverCity Riverport
14211 Entertainment Way
Richmond, British Columbia V6W1K4
Canada
Tel: 604-277-5993 (Tickets)
Link Removed
ONTARIO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Famous Players Paramount
259 Richmond St. West.
Toronto, Ontario M5V3M6
Canada
Tel: 416-368-5600
Link Removed
Troy

 

[Terrell]

Robert, I have a hard time believing you've seen films with not..........eh, nevermind. Not worth the argument.

 

[Troy LaMont]

In my umpteen years of movie going in the Cincinnati area, I can attest that I've never seen an extremely dirty transfer (or one that was objectionable). But I typically go see a movie early (first day or so out). Although even when I don't, the prints are still rather pristine.

Troy

 

[Jesse Skeen]

Funny how most of the theaters that have DLP are AMC theaters; I've heard they're the absolute WORST as far as film is concerned- people tell me the name stands for All Movies Compromised!

 

[StevenA]

Have you guys seen the AOTC trailers projected on film? (Of course you have, stupid question. Unless you saw it in a DLP theater). They really show up how limited the resolution of digital images is at the present time.

I suspect Lucas is now concerned that so many people will be seeing this "film" on film, as the image (at least as evidenced by the trailers) may look quite poor. (When digitally projected it probably looks pretty good, as there are no higher-resolution images which which to compare it).

On another note, film has other aesthetic advantages besides increased resolution: for example its "organic" quality, for want of a better term. Since each frame has a randomly distributed grain pattern, there is a "life" to the moving image which is absent from digital source material, and to a certain extent from digitally projected material.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

They really show up how limited the resolution of digital images is at the present time.

Tell me about it. AotC was shot at 1440x800, which is pathetic. Many years from now on future displays it will look very sad compared to both good film-shot movies and higher-resolution digital-shot movies that will become the norm.

 

[RobertR]

AOTC will be the very rare exception to the rule about seeing movies at their best on film. Since it only has HDTV resolution to begin with, there's nothing to be gained resolution-wise by seeing it on film. The question is, will the DVD be a straight digital downconvert (like the excellent Toy Story discs), or will Lucas try to "improve" it with EE?