Digital Bits Reports: APPLE joins Blu-Ray. Brace yourself for a format war! (1 Viewer)

[Benson R]

Again I dont think the adoption of blu ray by both ps3 and the computer industry means anything.

Look at it this way, most computer software still comes on cd so any new storage medium doesnt have to dominate. If there is any arena where two storage mediums can coexist its the computer world.

And the situation sd dvd had with the ps2 is completely different then blu ray. With the ps2 you could hook it up to any old tv and see what everyone was talking about with dvd. That wont happen with the ps3 unless the user has an hdtv. Even then how many people will have a ps3 hooked up to a widescreen tv with composite video cables. Dont forget because sony tries to make money back on the selling of proprietery accessories, the proper hd connections will cost extra and be hard to find.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

None of that is relevant to the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD debate. (It has more to do with whether people will upgrade right away.) The reason that the PS3 will have a major effect is that people will buy them in order to play the games, and will thus end up having a Blu-Ray player in the house. That's what happened with the PS2 -- people essentially ended up with a free (or very cheap, in the case of the XBox kit) DVD player because they wanted the video game system. Free always wins.

I agree that not everyone will be buying Blu-Ray discs right away, even if they have PS3s, but in that case, they wouldn't be buying them anyway and thus wouldn't make a difference.

 

[DanR]

Ron, it has been reported that the announcements of support by the studios are not "exclusive". That being said, obviously, Warner/NL will be exclusive to HD-DVD and Sony Pictures (now inclusive of MGM/UA) will be exclusive to Blu-Ray given each company's stake on the technology side.

It is my belief that the only reason a few of the studios supported HD-DVD out of the gate was due to the initial lower production cost (vs. Blu-Ray). Certainly logical for them to want to maximize their "short term" benefit, but hardly in the interest of anybody on a long term basis. These particular studios are not "true" visionaries of home entertainment, nor are they truly backing an HD optical format. It's more of a "wait and see; throw a few movies out on HD-DVD" attitude with little risk to them. What I have noted is that the studios backing HD-DVD talk about cost; studios backing Blu-Ray talk about high-res content, value-add programming to the consumer, capacity/interactivity, future growth/enhancements, etc.

In my opinion, true home theater enthusiasts that advocate the best that it can be should be hoping Blu-Ray wins this thing. To win it, Blu-Ray needs our support.

-Dan

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

As a friend pointed out, any company that gets Disney's support is the one likely to be holding the brass ring; they're the ones who sell the most DVDs because of the kids' market. Don't underestimate the parents who are going to shell out for Pixar and classic Disney titles (not to mention spin-offs, sequels, etc.) over and over again.

What a mess. As someone thinking about buying an RPTV later this year, i have to stop and wonder how my system is going to work with this new technology and not the other way around the way it should be.

 

[Tony Stark]

How do ya all definately know a format war is going to happen? Until there are two different formats physically on store shelves, there is still time for someone to 'blink'.

Right now there is a lot of posturing and saber waving. Nothing to worry about until late this year.

 

[Benson R]

Again, I dont think ps3 will help out blu ray that much. I agree it cant hurt, and it will definetly help to a certain degree, however I feel the impact will be close to insignificant.

And I dont think ps2 either had much of an effect on dvd. DVD was already firmly entrenched when ps2 came out. The christmas ps2 came out there were already some bargain players starting to hit the shelf. If I remember correctly thats when price started to go well under 200 and a couple cheapo players hit the magic 99 dollar mark.

I dont dispute that ps2 accelerated dvd adoption, but that wouldnt have happened unless the software presence wasnt already there. At that point almost every blockbuster and walmart was carrying dvd software.

 

[DeeF]

I wonder why Warners, arguably the most powerful force in home entertainment, isn't going for Blu-Ray. If Warners went for it, I bet Paramount et al. would follow suit.

Let's all send emails to George Feltenstein!

P.S. I don't know if he has any say, but he's still my hero!

 

[Benson R]

I think the format that wins, is going to win by simply putting out the most mainstream software.

And although blu ray is technically better on paper, there is no guarntee that users will be able to see a difference, especially as early software often doesnt take full advantage of the hardware.

Unfortunately I see there being no clear winner for at least a couple years. I believe both products will be coexisting until the rest of America goes hd like the early adopters.

Also, I can see the studios wanting to have releases be exclusive on sd dvd for awhile. It could easily be another form of double dipping. Get the early adopter crowd to buy the first sd-dvd release, and then upgrade a few months later to the hd version.

 

[Paul_Scott]

right.
much better to continue buying standard definition dvds for now- which you , of course, will never , ever upgrade in the future...unless you upgrade to get the superbit .

all this hysteria and handwringing is silly.
i need to upgrade my dvd player now, but i'm putting it off as i might as well wait a few months and add some HD capacity (i do have a compliant DVI display, so i'm ok there).

as far as who will win-
i'm going to go out on a limb and say Disney (like Porn) is not going to be a dominant force in this.
Disney = cheap babysitter. the rugrats are not going to be screaming that they want 1080i over 720p or lossless audio.
it just doesn't matter.
it also doesn't really matter if Blu-ray is in PS3s.
in fact, if it were, then i would look to that as a boon for HD DVD- because now, people would be free to make their sole player purchase be on the other format.
how many people already own both a dvd player AND a game console?


bottom line, its content- even moreso than what may be a percentile increase in quality.
when Sony is digging into its pockets to build another rep facilirty from the ground up to push out crap like Bad Boys 2 and the Big Hit, Warner will already be on its 3rd wave of 'scope classics, with more in the pipe.
ease of replication is going to count for quite a bit.


and frankly, while i like Apple, i don't watch dvds on my computer, why would i care about the 'finest presentation' for my 17" screen.
if Apple were making dedicated HTPCs it would be one thing...

 

[Brian L]

Glad to see a few members who, like me, are not interested at all in a machine that will not do Hi-Def over component connections. That is an absolute deal breaker for me.

FWIW, I also agree with whomever it was that said they do not expect the jump in quality for DVD done well to HD-DVD (or BluRay) to be all that great, particularly compared to the leap from VHS to DVD.

Whether it has been OTA or via Satellite, I have yet to see a film over any of my HD channels that was much of an improvement over the DVD (assuming there is a decent transfer available). Of what I have seen so far, we are talking incremental improvements at best when the content is film based.

I can accept that maybe I am not always getting full bandwidth from my friends at D* or my local OTA stations, or that my set (A Pio 533HD) is not a "real" HD display, but I can say that certain broadcasts of live events have been stunning (The recent Oscars telecast comes to mind). No film that I have ever seen in HD comes close to that.

And if HD video in whatever form is equivalent to what I am seeing of films via HDTV, then I see absolutely no reason to jump now or later.

And one way or another, if there is no unified format, I would bet that eventually, there will be universal players. I can't believe that the market for hi-rez audio was anywhere near what it would be for hi-rez video, and we now have uni-players for audio. If there is no unified HD video format, surely the manufacturers will figure out how to do universal machines.

BGL

 

[Adam_R]

Since I will be buying a PS3, I will have a Blu-Ray player already.

Whoopee!!!

 

[GlennH]

I don't know the details, but isn't it because Warner holds patents on DVD technology, and that would carry over to HD DVD technology? I think they earn a little something on EVERY DVD sold, not just their own. They don't want to give up that cash cow to Sony, et al.

 

[John H Ross]

Well... let's see. I can buy HUNDREDS, maybe THOUSANDS of new dvds with the money it would cost me for 2 x HD players, a HD display and a new amplifier capable of reproducing lossless audio simply to watch the same old movies over again but in slightly higher resolution.

You do the math!

John

 

[Shawn Perron]

I'll be buying both, unless HD-DVD decides to launch with single layer and/or hybrid DVD/HD-DVD discs. Since cost cutting seems to be the biggest issue for Warner and the other HD-DVD supporters, I can see them cutting costs further by providing single layers discs. Either they provide dual layer HD content, or I'll just wait out for Blu-Ray. Cutting corners on the video presentation just defeats the purpose me spending $1k on a player.



On a slightly different topic, have any manufacturers committed/announced to make a player for either of these formats? Until someone outside of these camps announces a player in production, they are both threats and not necessarily promises.

 

[Vader]

John, that one is easy..... it is a forgone conclusion that eventually HD players will have onboard decoders (just as many SD players have now), and analog line-outs for at least 7.1 channels. My main amp will drive the 5.1 (it only has 6 analog inputs), and a seperate amp will drive the 6 & 7......

 

[DaViD Boulet]

DTS-HD will be backwards compatible with existing decoders and provide "traditionl" DTS quality and lossless quality for those who upgrade or buy new eqiupment that can decode full DTS-HD data. You won't need to run analog-out for DTS-HD (why I like it so much).

My personal hope is for BluRay. It's a better format...more storage among other things.

Not sure what I'm going to do...but I certainly won't be a first-day early-adoptor like I was with DVD. I'll have to wait on the side-lines to be sure I'm spending wisely when I finally do get a "high def 5" disc" player.

Who knows...maybe I'll just get an apple computer and run DVI to my projector...and then I can go BluRay and get a new computer all at the same time...


Was that broadcast OAR or full-frame 16x9?

-dave

 

[Vader]

Dave,

I'm looking at maintaining the lossless quality using my current equipment (is this not the same path someone who uses seperate power amps would take)? Eventaully, the players them selves will have onboard decoders. The analog inputs don't care what is fed into them; they just route it to the speakers.... (at least, that is how I understand it)....

 

[TheLongshot]

That would be the best way to force a new technology. They can't really do that with two competeing formats, tho.

What I don't think has been mentioned here is the possibility that the winner is going to be whichever format the porn industry selects. No joke, they are a big driver for new technologies. It sounds like they are leaning towards Blu-Ray as well.


Jason

 

[GlennH]

I don't have HDNet myself, but I'm pretty sure I read that THE MUSIC MAN was OAR on it, and the concensus was that it looks great. I think they respect OAR pretty well on that channel.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I'm a lossless guy too...you've got a friend on that one...

But have you heard the (horrible) quality of the D/A converters in many of these "multi-channel output" players? Awfull...the 24/96 DAC in my B&K processor is MUUUCH better.

I don't think that analog-out from a stand-alone player is the audiophile's solution. (SACD is an exception to this bcs of the simplified DAC path and lack of downstream processing). Also...your glorious signal will be converted BACK to digital inside your decoder most likely to handle things like bass management and surround delay etc....is that an audiophile solution? Taking that great lossess audio, converting through a stock DAC section in a player and then converting BACK to digital for DSP and then BACK to analog?

I'll wager that even lossy DTS...sent digitally to the decoder...would perform better under these cirumstances because of the simplified signal path.

Updgrade your decoder to accept DTS-HD...that's the real audiophile solution...

funny how outboard DAC's went out of fashion for a while...well their back...we call them surround deocders/preamps now.