Die Hard Anamorphic vs. RP91 non-anam scaled (1 Viewer)

[DanG]

Well I got the Die Hard Ultimate Collection (Box Set), DTS-THX and finally Anamorphically Enhanced for Widescreen.
As we all know a non-anamorphic letterbox presentation at 2.35:1 aspect ratio constitutes about 270 lines on the DVD and the same presentation in anamorphic enhanced uses around 360 lines. So the anam version should be a little more detailed that a non-anam version.
Popped in Die Hard N-A version and skipped to Chap.2 where a driver is holding up a sign "Al.D.Simpson". I had company over so we watched a few minutes after to that to get a feel for the N-A version.
Up next, pop in the A-E version and skip to Chap.2 and the scene isn't there. Fox has re-edited the chapter starts. Found scene halfway through Chap.3. Found the "Al.D.Simpson" sign and it looked exactly the same as the N-A version. Watched the next few minutes and everybody agreed we couldn't tell the difference between the A-E and the scaled N-A version.
My only conclusion is, not that the RP91 is that good, but rather, that FOX instead of spending a little money to Telecine a new anamorphic master tape used an existing non-anamorphic master tape and scaled it to 363 lines to make the DVD mother. Doesn't FOX studios own the interpositive prints so that they could have made an anamorphic master tape?
Now I have to figure out if there is a legitimate way I can take the set back as the only difference between it and my old one is the DTS. I think I'm burned. Does what FOX did here constitute fraud?
Had an opportunity to compare Gladiator tonight, RP91 DVD vs. HD presentation at rescaled to 1.78:1 aspect ratio. Very disappointed that TMN got their hands on a rescaled version. I saw a quote from Dreamworks that the copies they released for broadcast were 2.35:1.
Even though it was a rescaled version, the HD presentation had more resolution than the DVD. Colours seemed to be richer and there were more shadings. Buffed vs. coarse parts of leather uniforms showed up more clearly in HD and facial blemishes and pores were clearly more evident in HD.
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[Matt_Stevens]

Fox did a brand new transfer and THX supervised it. The framing on this transfer is slightly different, the colors are different and the image as a whole is superior.
If Fox upconverted a non-anamorphic source, the result would be a blurry mess, like what Columbia has given us with their releases of MIRACLES and ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA 1 & 2.
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[Chris Maynard]

Here are some snaps of this so-called horrible transfer:
The scene un-zoomed.

Here is S.L.J. zoomed in. You can see the EE as the dark ring around his shirt. Again, compare the un-zoomed portion and then the zoomed one imagining that you only see the un-zoomed scene for about 3 1/2 seconds.

Here is a skyline shot which will surely make EE stand out and it does:

Here is the Empire State Building zoomed in. You can easily see the EE but again the scene shows for less than 2 seconds.

Here are some other shots..

So out of all those shots how bad is the EE really? You can still frame and zoom bringing it to the center of attention but during normal watching conditions it shouldn not be horribly distracting. Now..other than EE what is wrong with the transfer?
[Edited last by Chris Maynard on July 15, 2001 at 10:18 PM]

 

[DanG]

Nothing really... other than the fact it looks like the scaled non-anamorphic version produced by the RP91. I went through disc 1 again and looked at every background sign I could find. Every one looked identical in clarity for the anamorphic and scaled RP91 versions. This is not supposed to be because a true anamorphic disc has about 90 more scan lines than a non-anamorphic disc (before resizing by the MPEG decoder), that works out to having 33% more scan lines. This should be a very noticeable difference.
In fact it is, I put two "true" anamorphic discs, Independance Day and X-Men and they jumped out in resolution over the Die Hard disc.
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[Chris Maynard]

Have you even seen the first release of DHWAV on DVD?
They are two totally different transfers! The moire patterns of the original release are horrible! There is a substantial difference between the two.
Yes I have an RP91 and the two transfers look totally different.

 

[Todd Hochard]

What if the Die Hard print was filmed with a softer focus than the other two films mentioned. Couldn't that be a factor (and likely is)?
I've owned both Die Hard sets, and the new one sure looks better to me.
For reference, I'm using the Elite Pro-510HD, and the Denon DVD-2500 player (interlaced).
Perhaps this is just another reason to pick up the RP-91?
Todd

 

[Marc Alexander]

DanG,
What monitor are you using for viewing?

 

[DanG]

Good point Chris. The the two DH's I am comparing are:
Non-anamorphic->DolbyDigital, THX mastered, Cat.No.4110399
Anamorphic->DD5.1,5.1-DTS, THX mastered, 2001256,
Five Star Collection
This time I compared at time 21:31. This is a scene where a tele-linemans box is shown. Only the bottom rows of lights are on, the other 5 are off and you can see faintly the zeros. There are multi-coloured wires running into this box. Running through it on play and then using still mode produces the same results, resolution and clarity of the faint zeros is identical and colouring of the wires is identical, in fact both scenes are identical.
When Willis opens his wallet and looks at the note written to him by his children, again resolution and clarity of the blue text is identical.
In non-anamorphic mode I have the DigitalPictureMode set to Normal and the 3:2 pulldown is set for Auto2. Basically all the other settings are set to default.
It could be that my non-anamorphic version is different than yours. I have seen posts on AVS with people having the RP91 and also not seeing much difference between the two versions.
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[DanG]

This is negative consequence of my salacious post. As fine a player as the Denon, JVC, Philip and Kenwood are - at this point in time, I believe that the Panasonic is the only

 

[DanG]

I am using a Panasonic HD RPTV 56" 16x9. ISF calibrated by Michael-TLV and 480P,720P and 1080i modes fully service mode converged by me.
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[Todd Hochard]

Dan,
That was partly my point, too. The RP-91 scaling can have the appearance of adding detail on still images. The sign and note that you compare are just that- still. This allows the scaler to do a simple interpolation, and literally smooth out the image to equal one with more resolution in the source (i.e. equal the anamorphic). On the fast moving scenes, this doesn't work as well (although as processing power continues to improve, I expect this to improve, also).
This is precisely why HTPCs are so prevalent with front projectors.
This is precisely why the RP-91 is my next player- new life for my non-anamorphic discs.
Todd
P.S. How does a good non-anamorphic transfer, such as The Abyss, look?

 

[DanG]

I have assumed that the way the scaling works in the RP91 is similar in the way my Radeon would scale. Take a anamorphic DVD and scale it to NEW IMAGE + BLACK BARS = 720P. So I would think the RP91 is doing the same, take a 272line non-anam DVD and scale it vertically to 363lines anamorphic size. Since it added 91 scan lines it should add some detail to the image.
Abyss and all my non-anam's look like anamorphic DVD's, but they have a little less clarity than most of my Anamorphically enhanced DVD's. This is a small tradeoff indeed vs. seeing raster lines or watching scrunched people
Dan
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