Dialog normalization on Denon 3802

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by MarcVH, Jan 3, 2002.

  1. MarcVH

    MarcVH Second Unit

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    The manual for the 3802 indicates that dialog normalization happens automatically for all Dolby Digital sources, and that the level in use can be verified on the front panel via the "Status" button (which would make this yet another entry on the list of "things you can do via the front panel but not on the remote.")

    However, I don't see this. When I repeatedly hit "Status" while playing DD, I step through several things (surround parameters, channel volume levels, etc.) but the "Offset" for dialog normalization is not one of them. This happens with several different DD discs, including the Avia disc.

    Is the manual mistaken, or am I doing something wrong?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Jim Thor

    Jim Thor Extra

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    Marc, I have the 4802. I have seen the Display say dial norm etc several times.

    No I have never been able to call it up on a dvd though.

    I think it shows when it goes to the source.

    But there are many things I am still working on with this Receiver.
     
  3. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Marc: Probably a better way to characterize Dialog Normalization (DN) is to say that it "can" happen automatically for all DD sources. From my experience, most DD DVDs don't have it.
    A recent DVD that does have DN is Pearl Harbor. As this disc is playing in DD, toggle your Status button and you'll see the OFFSET +4 showup.
    If you are interested in DN, here is a good article.Dialog Normalization
    BTW, you can get remote control over the Status button of your Denon. Here is a thread that I posted to earlier. (Unfortunately, the hifi-remote site is down. I hope it's not permanent. It would be a shame to lose that resource.)
    One-For-All remote info
     
  4. MarcVH

    MarcVH Second Unit

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    Chuck, as always, thanks for the info.

    Pearl Harbor was actually one of the DVDs I used to test, and I didn't see an offset show up with it. I did notice, however, that on that DVD the DTS soundtrack is 3-4 dB softer than the DD soundtrack with all settings the same (as far as I can tell anyway.) Unfortunately it was a rental and I no longer have it to reconfirm my findings, so it's possible I was mistaken.

    I found that interesting because the other DVD I have with both DTS and DD is Gladiator, and on that movie it's the opposite -- the DTS soundtrack is 3-4 dB louder than the DD. Not sure if this is dialog normalization or if it's just the case that DTS levels aren't as standardized.
     
  5. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  6. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Michael: While I agree with you that DN is indeed a feature of DD, it's not been my experience that a high percentage of DD DVD titles I've watched are using it in the movie itself. If I understand the info I've read here and there, Dolby does not require DN (although I do get the impression that they highly encourage the use of it.)

    I don't always check to see if a disc is using DN. (I have a library of around 175 to 200 discs and hardly ever rent any.) If I don't forget to check, I'll try to pay closer attention over the next few discs.

    (FWIW, it's entirely possible that Denon doesn't indicate an offset of 0db. If that's the case, then obviously there would be substantially more DN going on than I'm aware of. I may give Denon a call and see if they can tell me...if I don't forget.)

    (Hmmm! Have you noticed I keep saying "if I don't forget?" Not good!) :b
     
  7. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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    Dialog Normalization is an integral component of the Dolby Digital format: there are no domestic Dolby Digital soundtracks that do not use it.

    Adam
     
  8. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    The 3801/02 Denons seems to note Offset only when it's different from the "normal" -4db setting.This is only my theory based on a few discs I've experimented with.
     
  10. MarcVH

    MarcVH Second Unit

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    If so, that's rather amusing, since the illustration (page 53 of the manual) specifically shows an example screen with an offset of -4 dB.
     
  11. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Ok Michael, will do. [​IMG]
    I finally got my hands on the new Roger Waters In the Flesh concert DVD. It shows a DN offset of +2. It's all I 've listened to on Friday.
    BTW, I tried to reach Denon on Friday. They are closed on Friday afternoons. I need a job like that!
     
  12. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  13. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Michael: Here are a few I took a quick look at (just picked at random)...

    No DN (or as I mentioned above, depending on how the Denon 3802 shows DN, I guess it could be zero offset.)

    The Exorcist The Version You've Never Seen

    Cleopatra

    Almost Famous

    Almost Famous Untitled

    Star Trek The Motion Picture The Director's Edition

    Me, Myself & Irene

    The Bone Collector

    Bridget Jones's Diary

    DN Offset +2

    The Mask of Zorro Special Edition

    DN Offset +4

    Air Force One (Regular Version)

    The Fifth Element (Superbit)
     
  14. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Note that the ones with different readings are all Columbia Tristar discs. As I indicated, this is the only studio that routinely departs from the default dialnorm setting of -4db.
    I have a number of these and will check them later today. I'm almost certain, though, that the ones listed under "no DN" apply the -4db default setting.
    Meanwhile, here are a few that I know have a "neutral" (i.e., 0db) dialnorm setting:
    The Limey
    Out of Sight
    Lethal Weapon 1-3 (director's cuts)
    Twister (remaster with DTS track)
    Interview with the Vampire (remaster with DTS track)
    Chocolat
    M.
     
  15. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  16. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Michael: Unfortunately, I only have one from your list. Twister (DTS version.)

    I popped it into the old player and it showed up as Offset +4. So, if this shows as 0 Dial Norm on your Lexicon, then should we consider that the Denons do not show -4 Dial Norm at all and anything different from that are "Offset" from the -4 value?

    I'll still try to get ahold of Denon if I can and ask how this is supposed to be...
     
  17. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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