DIALNORM: All studios now?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Yumbo, Feb 12, 2002.

  1. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    dunno,

    seems to me most new discs nowadays are so damn low!!!

    Warner

    Fox

    the usual Columbia...

    anyone else?

    makes one think there is a conspiracy with hardware manufacturers to upgrade to bigger amps, not that it would make a difference.
     
  2. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Specific titles, please.

    I have yet to encounter a Fox or Warner disc with a dialnorm setting greater than the encoder default of -4db. (Columbia is the same old story.)

    If you're hearing lower volume levels, I suspect it's due to something other than dialnorm.

    M.
     
  3. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ok,

    Don't Say A Word

    Hearts In Atlantis

    Hardball (Paramount)

    are just a few...too many to mention as of late. Mainly Warner sticks in my mind.

    This is plain observation of volume levels - my normal reference is -40db; I've had to push to average -35db, and to get proper impact -30db.

    Why can't they be like New Line?
     
  4. Mark Bendiksen

    Mark Bendiksen Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just got finished watching Hearts of Atlantis. I can't give you exact number off the top of my head, but I agree that it did indeed seem to be quite low.
     
  5. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  6. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not obsessed with dialnorm to go measuring it.

    it is pretty obvious when you can't hear standard dialog that the levels are lower, be it dialnorm, or mastering levels.

    plain situation is that levels are INCONSISTENT.

    it's pretty ANNOYING.

    Paramount is definately anothe rculprit.

    MI:2

    An American Rhapsody...anything they've released recently.

    Disney's Princess Diaries is a travesty with levels.
     
  7. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    grin,

    not obsessed, just peeved that we can't enjoy DVDs at an average setting.

    stop pissing.

    anyone know why there is a trend now to lower the levels?
     
  9. Artur Meinild

    Artur Meinild Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maybe the sound mix on these particular movies are a tad lower than average - who knows? I don't think ALL movies are mixed at reference level, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  10. Chris Maynard

    Chris Maynard Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 1998
    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
     
  12. DanR

    DanR Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 1998
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  13. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 1999
    Messages:
    6,499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  14. Artur Meinild

    Artur Meinild Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  15. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Imagine,

    Sitting in a super duper DTS THX 10.1 cinema waiting for Episode II (or any movie you've been looking forward to etc etc etc.), it starts after so many ads blaring through.

    The volume is so damn low...you get up, look for an usher, ask them to tell the projectionist to up it a few notches.

    That's it.

    The experience is lost, at that time.

    Expectations are not met, the fanfare is lost.

    blah blah blah.

    annoying, isn't it?

    just a simplified analogy.
     
  16. Robert Franklin

    Robert Franklin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2001
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All I have to say on this matter is that when I first bought dvds into my home and played them I noticed that the sound was very close to the sound quality of cds. (Uncompressed 44.1) But, not too long after dvds became more and more popular, the sound quality did suffer. I noticed that studios, or whoever the studios would use to replicate their discs, the sound was becoming lower and lower. For example try the Batman series. Listen to the sound at the beginning of the film. Then listen to the opening of all of the rest of the films. This was the first time that I actually noticed a difference in sound levels. NOT SO MUCH AS DIALNORM!! Also, if there are any contemporary jazz fans out there; listen to "An evening with Fourplay". The sound is so low, you have to literally turn your amp or receiver up almost to the point of blasting your speakers just to clearly discern all of the elements of the sound. Note: this is an Image title.

    So, if you ask me, that is one major reason that I perfer dts over dd. It seems like to me the sound is more consistent on various dvds. I know some people may say that there is a difference with the full-bit rate and the half bit-rate. Save that for another discussion. All-in-all, dts still is more consistant from soundtrack to soundtrack.
     
  17. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    17,977
    Likes Received:
    2,359
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Chris: But the home theater situation is completely different. Instead of having to leave the theater to find someone who will actually listen to you (or just wait for the usher to see what he can do if you go to a theater that still has real ushers). Then you miss stuff. With DVD, the volume change can be taken care of (in most cases) from your seat. If you do have to get up, simply stop the disc, go back to the main menu, click play, and the movie starts all over again.
     
  18. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I know.

    all I'm saying is there should be standards.

    I bet you'd be bitching if colour levels, brightness levels across different discs varied as wildly as sound levels.

    it's like crying ANAMORPHIC for all discs and all content.

    STANDARDS babeee.

    it ain't hard.

    and yes, I like to leave my volume setting at one LEVEL, to stop fiddling, and to just enjoy the movie.
     
  19. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 1999
    Messages:
    6,499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  20. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Vince:

    Let me try to explain a little better what I meant when I said I like the way THX controllers implement dialnorn.

    The default setting for dialnorm on a DD encoder is -27dBfs. The highest setting is -31dBfs. Since the default setting is 4dB below the maximum, most THX contollers/receiver (all the ones I have used myself) assume a dialnorm setting of -27 for calibration purposes. Once the controller has been calibrated properly, setting it at reference level will playback any soundtrack with a dialnorm setting of -27 at reference level.

    If, on the other hand, a dialnorm setting of -31 was used, the audio would actually be 4dB louder than reference. This is why a track with a dialnorm setting of -31 will indicate an offset value of "+4dB". This is telling the user this soundtrack is 4dB above what the system has been programmmed as reference level. Same thing for one of those Columbia discs that has a dialnorm setting of -22 or something weird like that. A -22 dialnorm value will give an offset of "-5dB". Turn the master volume up 5dB and you will hear what the audio mastering engineeer at Sony (or where ever) heard before he applied the dialnorm.
     

Share This Page