Denon's AVR2803 Cedia press release!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Nick V, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    That looks really sweet. I might wait for this to come out instead of going with the Marantz 7300 (especially with the problems that are starting to turn up).
     
  2. Steve Winkler

    Steve Winkler Stunt Coordinator

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    Very nice. I wish these were out right now. The Marantz 7300 is probably my leading contender currently. Also checking out the Sony Da-4ES and Yamaha RXV-2300. The Denon 3803 is just too much$$ here in Calgary. I like the idea of moving into 6.1 or 7.1 but I keep reading how 7.1 usually provides a better sounfield than 6.1 . Can you fake 7.1 with a 6.1 receiver or not really?? By that I mean, can you run 7 speakers safely with a 6 channel amp?

    Thanks for the Denon news, I may just have to wait.

    Steve
     
  3. DaveBB

    DaveBB Supporting Actor

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    This sounds cool. My almost six year old Denon 3200 is dying a slow death and the 3803 is a bit out of my price range.

    So what are the real differences?
     
  4. David Lorenzo

    David Lorenzo Stunt Coordinator

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    CEDIA news? You mean CES?

    I saw this unit on display at the Denon booth. They said they were having production problems and that's why it wouldn't be available until March.
     
  5. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    looks great,I will anxiously await it's arrival in my sound room. I wonder about video out quality (have had problems recently with more than a few denons), and BALLS ...this category has also been questionable (imho) lately with denon........
     
  6. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    Anyone know why Mike Up has deleted all of the posts that I've seen?

    Wassup?
     
  7. Curt Jett

    Curt Jett Agent

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    I've been wandering the same thing after reading other posts. Seems like if it is worth posting to begin with it would be worth leaving for others to be able to follow the thread.
     
  8. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    I deleted all my posts because there were individuals that were offended by my opposing experiences and opinions.

    There were complaints of my sharing of experiences and opinions. I've never experienced or have ever seen this sort of finger pointing attacks on a moderated forum. I've decided to stop answering questions where I could answer based on my knowledge or experience. So instead of offering information, I'll visit when I need some questions answered.

    Have a good one.
     
  9. Phil*K

    Phil*K Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Mike,

    I understand how you feel. I'm not sure if you know this but the post in question has been edited. I hope you change your mind and start posting again.


    Take care,

    Phil
     
  10. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    I too would like you to reconsider posting, Mike.

    People get out of hand with resenting or taking offense to others opinions. But isn't people's opinions a good part of what this forum is for. Sometimes people want definite specifications, and sometimes they want opinions.

    And with the forum member number as great as it is, we are bound to get informed AND uninformed opinions.

    I state here that I do not like the posts that bash other posts. An opposing opinion can be stated, but stated in a positive way, not a denigrating way.

    Obviously, a great deal of our posts are our opinions, and a goodly number of them are INFORMED opinions.

    In that vein, I ask you to return to the forum, and I advise others to realize that Mike's posts are his opinion (or accurate specifications, etc.), as are each of our own. Why not benefit from his experience and knowledge? If you don't like what he has to say, don't say anything at all. If you have an opinion of your own, state it, but you don't need to bash anyone else's ideas.

    As I've always said, I take most people's advice - what I do with it is up to me.

    So, I would like to see Mike's advice/opinions on this forum. What we do with them is up to us. But, it is NOT up to us to denigrate his or anyone else's opinions. Anything that is not up to the standards of the forum will be dealt with by the administrators.


    Mike: Please come back!

    ... Greg
     
  11. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    Oh, and Mike, is there any chance of you reposting at the top of this thread. You've really got my interest peaked!
     
  12. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    For all who are interested, this is the link that Mike had originally posted about the 2803's specs.
    Nick
     
  13. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    I did not verify with Denon but I believe the 24/192 DACs quoted in the press release are actually 24/96's. Not a huge change but understandable when one looks at the price.
    Here is the 2803 product sheet...http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdf...it%20Sheet.pdf
    BTW, I agree. Mike...come back!!!
     
  14. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    Hey guys, thanks for the welcome mat, I appreciate it.[​IMG]
    The Denon AVR-2803 seems to be the receiver to beat. I think it's running neck and neck with the Yamaha RX-V1300.
    From the features standpoint, I prefer the Denon with it's dual back surround channel amplifiers, opposed to Yamaha's one back surround channel amp. I haven't even heard the AVR-2802 so I can't comment on whether it'll beat the Yamaha. The RX-V1300 seems to have a good amp section, but the AVR-2803's amp section is beefed up also. The current consumption on the AVR-2802 is 5.0 amps and it weighs 25 lbs 6 oz. The AVR-2803's current consumption is 5.5 amps and it's weight is 28 lbs 11 oz.
    In case anyone is wondering, I've made a list of the differences between the AVR-3803 and the AVR-2803. It's mainly features and not technical specs.
    AVR-2803 is similar to AVR-3803 but does not have
    1) 192/24 Burr Brown DACs, has 96/24 Analog Devices DACs
    2) Pure Direct Mode, just Direct mode
    3) Alpha 24 processing
    4) Component Up-conversion
    5) On-screen menus through component video output
    6) 2 optical digital outputs, only 1 optical digital output
    7) 5 optical digital inputs, only 4 optical digital inputs
    8) Digital audio delay
    9) 110 watts/ch. into 8ohms, instead has 90watt/ch.
    10) Dual surround speaker mode, instead offers 2 pairs of front speaker outputs
    11) DDSC
    12) Zone 2 composite video output
    13) LCD programmable/learning backlit remote, instead has programmable/learning remote with glow buttons and without LCD screen.
    14) Capability of accepting 192/24 bit digital signals, only 96/24 bit signals with it's 24 bit/96 kHz Digital Interface Receiver (circuit which detects the differing digital signals).
     
  15. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    Wow! Denon sure is packing in features in the xx03 models!

    I thought I needed a 3803 to replace my 3300. Maybe a 2803 is all that I need. Hmmmmmmmmmm....

    G.
     
  16. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    Yep, the AVR2803 most likely has enough features to make even the mightiest enthusiast happy.
    The AVR-2802 'seemingly' didn't do any amp mods for the extra 6th channel. Back to the AVR-2800, the current consumption has always been 5.0 amps and a weight of 25lbs and 6oz. The new model's weight went up by 3lbs 5oz. Funny, the weight differences between the AVR-3300 and the AVR3802/3803 is 3lbs 4oz ! The AVR-3801 weighed the heaviest of the 38** models but I believe it was because the 3801 was new to 7.1 and refinements in heat sinking probably lost a pound in weight. Don't know, but sounds logical.
    Based on the AVR-5800/5803's power output compared to their rating's("ACCORDING TO SOUND & VISION)percentage, here's a chart that 'could' represent S&V's output rating method.
    AVR-3803: 5 channels driven-89 watts/channel, 7 channels driven-76 watts/channel
    AVR-2803: 5 channels driven-73 watts/channel, 7 channels driven-62 watts/channel
    If you noticed from S&V's ratings, the AVR-3801 tested at 92 watts in 5 channel driven mode, and 85 for 6 channels driven. That follows very closely to my AVR-3803 'assumptions', being off only by 3 watts. The AVR-3801's 85 watts for "6" channel output falls in between my assumed AVR-3803's 76 and 89 watts.
    The AVR-2802 tested at 74 watts with 5 channels driven which is 1 watt off from my AVR-2803 assumptions. Since this amp clearly wasn't designed for 7 channel power output, it 6 channel driven output mirrors my AVR-3803 'assumption' with it's 7 channel output. Once again only 1 watt off.
    Here's S&V's receiver power test results.
    I think Denon has an acceptable formula for their power output compared to their ratings. Most makers rate only with 2 channels driven with either the 2 fronts driven, the 2 surrounds driven, the 2 back surrounds driven, or the 1 center driven. Shown clearly by not stating that all speakers are driven at once and separating the wattage ratings into speaker pair groups, as Denon does. Denon doesn't rate with all channels driven. Going by the AVR-5803 test results done by S&V, here's my findings.
    5 channel output is ~81% of rated '2 channel output'. 7 channel output is ~69.5% of rated '2 channel output'.
    However I'm finding test results from SGHT and Home Theater Magazine to have multichannel test results in direct opposition with S&V, many times showing multichannel driven outputs that exceed 2 channel ratings. While using the same receiver, S&V's test results don't have the receiver even meeting the 2 channel ratings. I'm going with 2 out of 3 and saying that S&V is less accurate [​IMG].
    The above is not fact, it is only assumptions, so take it with a grain of salt.[​IMG]
    Happy trails.
     
  17. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKEY!!!!!
    Welcome back!
    I am so glad that you decided to return!
    EXCELLENT!
    ... Greg [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    Hmmmmmmmmmmm........... that is VERY interesting that the two magazines report far different wattage ratings than S&V. Good of you to point that out.

    So, in theory, it is safe to assume that your percentages would be higher (how much we don't know) when the receivers are tested by those two magazines.

    That makes me feel even better about the 2803. While I'd love the 3803, it just may be out of my range, since the MSRP up here in Canada is about 190% of the MSRP down there, so a $400 difference would translate to almost $600 up here. No small chunk of change.

    Thanks for the thoughts, Mike! Keep it up. These are the first posts I've seen you make, other than the many blank ones I've seen, and I quite like your way of looking at things and your clear explanations.

    You, along with many others, are a credit to this forum, from what I can see so far!

    Thanks!

    ... Greg
     
  19. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    Question: What is with the 2803's Front speakers with A and B, when the 3803 has the A and B speakers for the surrounds.
    That's the way my 3300 has it and the way it seems most plausible to me.
    You have dipole surrounds just a little behind you and a foot or two above your head - Surround A.
    You have direct radiating speakers in the back corners, at ear level like the fronts - Surround B.
    Denon suggests you use the Surround A configuration above for movies, and the Surround B config. for sources like DVD-A and SACD - although it's up to the user what he likes and dislikes.
    But, I don't see the reasoning behind having the ability to have two sets of front speakers.
    On both of them, the surround back speakers are labeled as Zone 2 speakers, should a person want a 5.1 setup and 2 speakers in another room.
    Anyone have any comments? I'm "cornfused"! [​IMG]
     
  20. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    Thanks for the nice compliments :b .
    Even here in the US, the AVR-2803 still is $400 cheaper than the AVR-3803 when MSRP is concerned. That's a pretty good hunk of change still, and I would had been tempted to go with the AVR-2803. Once again though, the two still may not sound the same. I've heard others comment that the AVR-2802 didn't sound as good as the AVR-3802. If I were you, I'd definitely do some serious A/B auditioning, preferably with an A/B switch console like what's used at Tweeter and Circuit City.
    Many of the things the AVR-2803 omits doesn't seem relevant, especially for $400 more. Then again the AVR-3803 weighs ~8lbs more so there could be more to the sound than just 20 more watts. BTW, the Yamaha RX-V1300 and RX-V2300 weigh the same at 33lbs.
    Weight differences between manufacturers isn't always relevant as makers design differently. However, when there's a large weight difference within a manufacturer's line, I do wonder what the differences are.
    Comparing them should bring to light any differences in sonics and make the decision of which to go with, much easier.
    Good Luck [​IMG]
     

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