DENON...When is the 5803 coming out??? You're falling behind the competition (49TX)! (1 Viewer)

[Robert George]

Does anyone really know what a "Hammerhead SHARC" is? And if you do, can you tell me the difference between the Hammerhead SHARC in the Denon and the (dual) SHARC 32-bit floating point processors in the Pioneeer 49TX?

Does a SHARC by any other name sound as sweet?

 

[John Doran]

robert,

i don't know, but on the denon site they're described as:

The Analog Devices 21161 SHARC is a high performance 32-bit signal processor for speech, sound, graphics, and imaging applications. The system-on-a-chip architecture operating at 100 MHz features:

- 32-bit IEEE floating point computations (400MFLOPS)

- 128 Kby dual-ported SRAM

- Four serial I/O ports capable of transfering 100Mbits/s each (2 input, 2 output)

- Two bi-directional link ports capable of transfering 100Mby/s each

- Ten simultaneous DMA channels (6 link ports, 4 serial ports, and 4 host/PCI channels)

- Total DMA throughput of up to 700 Mby/s with transparent memory crossbar

- Integrated SDRAM controller with 400 Mby/s external memory bandwidth

Specs: 1K CFFT in 92uS, continuous 2K RFFTs at 20MHz

in case anyone cares.

 

[John Doran]

by the way, i'm going for the 5803 upgrade for my 5800 and using the unit as a pre/pro.

it's the most economical solution, as far as i can see. and the complete array of features is just staggering. for real.

(i can't wait for the variable crossover...it's about time)

- jd

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"I hate to be so negative, but I wish that people would realize that comments like this are what makes these forums so full of rumor and gossip. Let's try and keep things accurate folks. Speak with the facts, not with your heart. And don't worry about trying to justify your position to anyone else... you obviously bought what makes you happy and you will continue to do so."

Dale, My apologies...I didn't breakout the math to the exact percent, off by 6%...hate to start any unfound rumors or make it sound as though I'm speaking from my heart. :b

If you don't want to be so negative, then don't be. Pretty easy. This upgrade we're talking about far out does the past DTS upgrade of the 5600 or the DPLII upgrade of the Onkyo. I completely understand if all you want extra from your 5800 is DPLII, but don't go chastising me about starting absurd rumors on "these" forums. My math may have not been quite right, but everything else I typed was "FACT".

Denon has given us the ability to take advantage of a hardware upgrade. If you don't want it, don't get it. Maybe this shouldn't necessarily be directed at you, but it seems like there is nothing good enough for everyone...so be it. The 5800 upgrade is a no brainer for me and others. $800 is one hell of a lot better than chasing features every other year for 5 times that cost...(i.e. MSRP on the 5803 is $4200!). Many people complained about there not being an upgrade previous to it being available, no people want to whine about how much it is and why it isn't this or that....whatever, end of my rant.

BTW, The Sharc processors are just updated processors from the ones that were previously in the 5800. Almost like the processor in your computer, going from 500mhz to 1ghz. More instructions, better speed and architecture, etc. Kind of like the refinement of DACs...I suppose. I believe that the processors in the Pioneer are the same as in the Denon....capable of much more horsepower than those in the "upgraded" Onkyo 989...BTW

Jeremy

 

[Dale_S]

, Dolby Headphone, true bass management, THX Ultra 2, better digital connectiblity, etc. etc. is well worth $800.

In the above quote you claim that Denon includes Firewire in the upgrade. It does not. It does include Denon Link, a proprietary digital connection allowing you to connect devices like Denon's upcoming 9000 DVD player. For those of us with no intention to buy a Denon DVD player, this is of no real benefit.
Regarding the 'chase' for new features every other year, I'll happily admit that I'm not one who does this. I lived with my Pioneer D1S until I finally found a unit with comparable input/output flexibility. The 5800 meets those needs and so I purchased it. I don't have to have the latest and greatest and have said so before.
So yes, it is my decision on whether to get the upgrade, or for that matter, to entirely replace my 5800. I don't need you or other Denon evangelists trying to convince me. Enough said on that.
Miguel,
You asked whether the new DSPs in the upgrade/5803 are going to change/affect the sound. As far as timbre and tonal quality goes, probably not. This is more a feature of the analog section than the digital side. The DSPs act purely in the digital domain, processing the sound according to the algorithm you have chosen (i.e. DTS Neo:6, DPL II, 5/7 Channel Stereo, etc). As long as Denon's DSP code isn't seriously flawed, there should be no noticeable difference between the sound of your existing 5800 and that of the upgraded 5800 or 5803. The new DSPs are more powerful and do allow for more sophisticated processing, but if implemented properly, they shouldn't change the overall 'Denon sound'.
Peace and happy listening!

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

Dale...
Ya want to bet on tomorrow's hockey game?
Good night,
Jeremy

 

[Dale_S]

Jeremy,
A bet on that game would be most foolish. Still, you can bet I'll be watching it along with the rest of North America. I've got the beer chilling and the snacks prepared. All I need now is DPL II to make me really feel like I'm in the arena!
:star: GO CANADA GO! :star:
Peace and happy listening!

 

[Miguel Stanic]

Go CANADA!!!! Yzerman shoots, HE SCORES!!!! The CANADIANS have won the GOLD MEDAL!!!! I am Canadian!!!!

BTW, how come Pioneer doesn't advertise their SHARCS as Hammerheads if indeed they are the same as the new Denon. How many Burr Brown DAC's are in the Denon as oppose to the Pioneer. I thought I read that the Denon has 16 and Pioneer 8 or do they both have 16.

Which AMPS are better...Pioneer's or Denon's? Can anybody that use to have the 5800 and now has the 49TX please comment.

 

[Chris Maynard]

I have a friend with the 49TX. While he loves the sound, he was able to have the unit shut-off (clip) at reference levels. His previous B&K would not do this but the Onkyo 989 would.

I have never (keep in mind we do not have the speakers but loads are similar) been able to clip the 5800 and I have yet to hear of anyone else doing it.

 

[John Doran]

How many Burr Brown DAC's are in the Denon as oppose to the Pioneer. I thought I read that the Denon has 16 and Pioneer 8 or do they both have 16.

the 5800 has 16 AD-1853 24 bit, 192 kHz highest resolution DACs (2 per channel), but they're not burr-brown, they're Analog Devices (same manufactureer as for the SHARC processors).

all i can find on the pioneer 49tx is that it has "All Channel Burr Brown 192kHz/24-Bit DAC".

i don't know how many per channel that is...

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"the 5800 has 16 AD-1853 24 bit, 192 kHz highest resolution DACs (2 per channel), but they're not burr-brown, they're Analog Devices (same manufactureer as for the SHARC processors)."

This is true, however the upgrade brings Burr Brown DACs to the Denon.

As Chris mentioned, I have never been able to clip my Denon either.

Jeremy

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

BTW...
Where is the American support????
GO USA!!!!! The puck drops in 5 minutes...I hear Canada is being shut down Now that is support....
Good Luck,
Jeremy

 

[Chris Maynard]

This is true, however the upgrade brings Burr Brown DACs to the Denon.

Jeremy - I did not know this. Are you sure they are not still Analog Devices?

 

[John Doran]

chris,

jeremy's right.

from the denon website under the "5800 upgrade kit" :

16 Burr-Brown PCM-1738E 24-bit, 192-kHz highest resolution DACs, with DSD compatibility - each audio channel operating in differential mode

- jd

 

[Dale_S]

:star: CONGRATULATIONS TEAM CANADA FOR YOUR GOLD MEDAL WIN IN ICE HOCKEY! :star:
What can I say... this was one of the best international hockey games I've ever watched, with both Canada and the US playing their hearts out. Both teams truly are at the top of their sport.
I'm sure glad I have a decent home theater to watch it on, but surely nothing could beat the feeling of being there live in the arena. I was at the Bronze medal game during the '88 Olympics in Calgary, and it is such a joy to behold something like this live. Let's hope that the future home theaters we all strive for can eventually give us more of that feeling of being there!
For something on topic, does the Pioneer 49TX also offer a dual differential mode with it's DACs?
PS: Woohoo, my 100th post on HTF!! Talk about timing!
Peace and happy listening!

 

[Miguel Stanic]

I have never had my 5800 clip either. Although I rarely play it at very high levels. What's this saying for the 49TX if people have had it clip already on them at high levels. Also, a few are going with external amps. Maybe Denon does build a better quality product. I would think an Elite piece, however, should be right on par with Denon's best. At this level, quality and performance should be almost the same.
49TX owners, where are you? How do you feel about this units quality, power and performance.
CONGRATS to CANADA's HOCKEY TEAMS..PURE GOLD:star: :star:

 

[Jon Teddlie]

I've had my 49TX cranked up lots to +2 etc.. and never have experienced any clipping. Would the speakers being used make any difference??

 

[Shane Martin]

Obi is using B&W Nautilus 804's. They are not exactly easy loads but they aren't exactly hard either.

The specs on his speakers(which are normally driven by other folks by external amps and I know he is doing that now are):

89db 8ohm nominal, 3 ohm minimum.

Would the speakers being used make any difference??

Yes and quite a bit.

 

[John Doran]

rajeek,
the numbers you give are not the only ones available. stereophile guide to home theater got different ones in their test of the avr-5800:
- with six channels driven, 143Wpc at 1kHz and 145Wpc at 20Hz
these things are rarely so simple...

 

[Miguel Stanic]

I'm assuming that Obi is using a 49TX. I thought I read that Obi's unit shut down. I may be mistaken with someone else so I apologize if that's the case.

Thanks Rajeek, for the numbers, it definitely says a lot about the power of the Pioneer.

I'm just alarmed because I read a couple of posts whereby this was an issue for some folks with the 49TX. The unit shutting down that is.

How do you guys like the 49TX for audio.