DENON...When is the 5803 coming out??? You're falling behind the competition (49TX)!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Miguel Stanic, Feb 22, 2002.

  1. Miguel Stanic

    Miguel Stanic Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey DENON,

    When is the 5803 coming out so we can start buying them? You were, and still are, way too slow with the 5800 upgrade and there's nothing on your web page about the 5803. This can only mean that it's still a couple of months away from being available to us consumers. How much more is this baby going to cost than the 49TX?

    Does anybody know if the 5803 will convert the inferior video signals (composite and S-Video) to component like the 49TX?
     
  2. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Price is over $4,000 I believe for this one. Way up their for a practically non-upgradeable receiver IMHO.

    Not worth it. Look at separates. Put the bulk of your money into amps and get an O.A. Model 950 to start.

    Dan
     
  3. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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    Hint! Go with the Pioneer, or preferably separates.
     
  4. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    I remember reading that the 5803 would be available in April 2002. It is a bit pricey, and you might want to consider separates as Dan proposed IF you can't get the 5803 with a nice discount. I am pretty certain that the 5803 will probably best the Pioneer 49TX, but you will certainly pay for that privilege! I mean the upcoming Denon DVD-9000 will both do DVD-A/SACD and will have a digital encryption scheme going with the 5803 so you can use DVD-A via the digital connection instead of analog. It's mighty cool, but....you will pay nearly 8k for both units. i can only dream.......

    Reg
     
  5. Dave Dahl

    Dave Dahl Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes the 5803 with convert composite and S-video signals into component.

    As for availability it is scheduled to arrive in stores in mid-March.

    I can only assume that it is not on their web site so as to not interfere with sales of the 5800.

    -Dave
     
  6. Alex Yang

    Alex Yang Stunt Coordinator

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    Rajeek,
    Miguel, is basically stating that Denon is FALLING behind the release schedule and that OTHER units LIKE the Pioneer is beating them to the gate... In other words "HURRY UP Denon, Pioneer is winning the race..."
    He did not say the Pioneer is "BEHIND" the Denon, merely that Denon needs to catch up to Pioneer... He's very VERY anxious for the unit to be released!!! [​IMG]
    (As was I, until I heard of something called Anthem) [​IMG]
    ************************************************** ******
    Miguel,
    I spoke with Denon early February and I asked a few questions:
    1. When is it coming out?
    2. Why no new posts yet on the Web with specs ala PDF?
    3. Are you coming out with a PreAmp
    Answers:
    1. March 2002
    2. PDF to be released after "official" product launch
    3. "we'll see..."
    Good Luck...!
    -Alex
     
  7. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    I sealed the deal on a 5803 today. All paid for. March 11th arrival at the Tweeter i deal with. Pioneer's yanking my guy's chain. I'm done waiting on a 49TX. That order has been cancelled. I'm sure i'd be happy with either one.
     
  8. Miguel Stanic

    Miguel Stanic Stunt Coordinator

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    Chip E., did you break the bank with the 5803 in comparison to the 49TX? How much was the 49TX in comparison to the 5803? Do let us know[​IMG]
    Rajeek, I was stating that Denon is falling behind Pioneer. I know the Pioneer is a darn good unit...I've seen it and heard it. Any negative comments I mention are all from current users and not something I'm creating myself. I will probably get the 49TX but it's just that the 5803 is right around the corner and it's hard to choose the 49TX without being able to compare the two. Then again, the price difference makes the 49TX the winner as I can't see the 5803 killing the 49TX in performance. Unless those Hammer Head SHARCS have something magical as the 49TX doesn't have Hammer Head SHARCS...Take Care Rajeek ... you have a GREAT UNIT ... I may still join your club[​IMG]
     
  9. phyllis

    phyllis Agent

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    The denon 5803 is going to cost $6800 canadian Miguel.It is on the canadian website.Even after a discount and taxes in your still looking in the are of $6000.Probably is going to be agreat machine but a little to pricey for us canadians.For that price you could get the avm20 with amp and get a better performance,but that is for future thread to be discussed since we cant compare the 5803 just yet!!
     
  10. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    "Chip E., did you break the bank with the 5803 in comparison to the 49TX? How much was the 49TX in comparison to the 5803? Do let us know"

    I didn't break the bank. I got a deal i couldn't refuse.
     
  11. Miguel Stanic

    Miguel Stanic Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Phyllis.....
    Let's see Pioneer's MSRP is $5500 whilst Denon's is $6800 in our beloved Canada. Denon sure has A LOT of balls to put out a product that expensive. Where's the justification when, on paper, the Pioneer can do everything that that Denon can. Is Denon CRAZY!!! I've had the 5600, 5700 and currently have the 5800. There's no doubt Denon puts out high quality, industry driving products but at those ridiculous prices Denon is becoming the NVIDIA of electronics. We need the ATI's to start competing with them (Pioneer, B&K, Marantz, Yamaha, etc.).
    Chip E....you must have gotten a sweet deal [​IMG] as you're hardly willing to let us in on it. Good for you nonetheless and I hope you get that Denon ASAP.
    Now my dilemna......Denon 5800 upgrade, Denon 5803 (if I can wait for it and then declare bankruptcy later this year)or the Pioneer 49TX......what to do[​IMG]
     
  12. Chris Maynard

    Chris Maynard Supporting Actor

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  13. Jah-Wren Ryel

    Jah-Wren Ryel Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris - I don't know why you say that Denon never sold the 5800 as an upgradeable unit. The marketing was pretty clear on that point, and has been scaled back in the latest version of the manual online. As for the 5803 being non-upgradeable, there is a lot of speculation that the 580x design has reached end of life with the 5803 and that whatever replaces it will be a wholesale revamp rather than a relatively minor tweak like the 5803 is to the 5800. It is likely that the only reason we have the (overpriced IMHO) upgrade for the 5800 today is that the 5803 is practically the same unit so Denon did not have to waste engineering resources on a dual-track development path. If the successor to the 5803 is indeed a brand new design, then the chance of Denon producing an upgrade for the 5803 is quite small.
     
  14. Dale_S

    Dale_S Stunt Coordinator

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  15. Chris Maynard

    Chris Maynard Supporting Actor

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    Well gentlemen....I was one of the first adopters of the 5800 and when I talked to Denon Dave on the phone about it he was fairly clear to me that the RS232 port was for A/V controllers rather than upgrading the software or firmware flashes. He did not rule it out, but it was clear that it was not the primary purpose.

    I will be happy to admit that I am wrong but the perception from everyone that purchased one (at least in the beginning) was it was what it was and would not be upgradeable. As a matter of fact there was plenty of debate here from people questioning the decision of a 5800 purchase since B&K and Onkyo were marketed as upgradeable.

    That is only one aspect though....

    "Practically non-upgradeable"...

    What do you call the 5800 upgrade? Chicken feed?

    Sure looks pretty good to me.

    As far as the price is concerned....I am sure not many will be paying the full $800.00 advertised price. On top of that, I would still pay it and not blink an eye. It is still cheaper and has more features than 90% of the pre-pros costing 2x to 3x as much.
     
  16. Dale_S

    Dale_S Stunt Coordinator

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  17. Zbigniew

    Zbigniew Stunt Coordinator

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    Only 8k$ for a digital SACD/DVD-a into pre-amp ???

    Thats is CHEAP. You r other option for DVD-a is Meridian, something like 6-18k for pre ( 568, or 8k series), and a DVD player - 5k$ ??

    In addition, my cost for 5803 will be well below 3k. if I can get a similar deal on 9000, I will have full set for 5k. Who else is playing ?

    Also, Dale - which commands do not work via RS-232 ?

    I played with it for a while, and once I will get additional RS-323-USB ports, I will shwitch my 58xx from IR into RS control.

    _zjt
     
  18. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    "You were, and still are, way too slow with the 5800 upgrade and there's nothing on your web page about the 5803."

    What??? I'm sorry, but this statement just seems, well, I won't go there. I was a mid-term adopter of the 5800 and I always believed that an upgrade would come someday. Whether it was a simple s/w upgrade (ie. 989) for DPLII or a h/w upgrade...I believed it was coming.

    Do you know why they have pushed back the upgrade? It's because there is a shortage of the latest Sharc Hammerhead processors....the latest processing (newer than those used in the Lexicon MC-12). Patience is a virtue, friends. This upgrade is the FIRST, TRUE, upgrade, offered by any receiver manufacturer at ANY price. There are many Lexicon MC-1 owners that purchased their units at the same time as I did, maybe at twice the price...what are their upgrade possibilities???? I could go on and on about who gets what in the pre/pro market, but, IMO, Denon has stepped up to the plate in a HUGE way. $800 is 15% of the price of the new MSRP on this unit and it bugs me that even the owners of the 5800 have a bitch about this price. New DACs, Firewire, Dolby Headphone, true bass management, THX Ultra 2, better digital connectiblity, etc. etc. is well worth $800. This upgrade will bring the 5800 back to the top of the heap with the likes of the 49 TX. If you are a Pioneer fan....COOL, go with the 49, if you are a Denon fan, you should be very happy with the way they are treating us!!! There always has to be someone bitching about something, I suppose....but to me, this is some incredibly happy news. If you don't want it, don't get it. God knows, this piece already sounds GREAT.

    Jeremy
     
  19. Dale_S

    Dale_S Stunt Coordinator

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    ZBigniew:
    The number of commands I cannot get to work are small but in my custom home control setup, they are essential. None of the record select commands work, and neither do most of the surround parameter setting commands. I have not verified every command listed in the protocol document, but I have tried the ones I want to use. I have contacted Denon to see if they can help with these issues, but have not heard back as of yet.
    Jeremy:
    Again I have to disagree regarding 'true upgrades'. Denon has also offered a DTS upgrade (hardware) for a past flagship (the 5600 I believe). For current flagships, Onkyo was the first receiver manufacturer to offer a true upgrade with their $50 DPL II upgrade. Yes the Denon upgrade has lots of extras included but for me the only important one is DPL II. I suspect others feel the same.
    As for your comment that the upgrade is 15% of the MSRP, that's also inaccurate. The MSRP of the Denon 5800 is $3799. The upgrade MSRP is $800. By my calculation that comes to 21%. And like myself, many others did not pay MSRP for their receiver - I paid $2650 from an authorized dealer. This means I have to pay $560 or less for the upgrade to retain the same percentage. Regardless, that's still over one fifth of the original purchase cost for unit that is l.5 years old. Is that reasonable? You decide...
    I hate to be so negative, but I wish that people would realize that comments like this are what makes these forums so full of rumor and gossip. Let's try and keep things accurate folks. Speak with the facts, not with your heart. And don't worry about trying to justify your position to anyone else... you obviously bought what makes you happy and you will continue to do so.
    Peace and happy listening! [​IMG]
     
  20. Miguel Stanic

    Miguel Stanic Stunt Coordinator

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    I keep hearing about these Hammer Head SHARCS. Are they going to vastly improve sound quality or do they even have anything to do with sound. So far, only the Denon 5800 upgrade and the Denon 5803 appear to carry these new Sharc processors. Does anybody know if the Pioneer 49TX has them. I would think not as they are only listed as dual SHARC processors on their specs. Are the Burr Brown DAC's in the 49TX equivalent to the Denon 5803?
     

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