Denon vs Yamaha Questions (have JBL speakers)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Richard_s, Apr 21, 2002.

  1. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    There may be some general answers to Denon vs. Yamaha that may help me.

    General Comparison Questions:

    Specifically I am looking at the Denon 1802 and the NEW Yamaha 5550/5560 (These appear too new to have any reviews and I am sure few owners yet).

    Based on your past experience how well does the Denon amplifiers (1802 80W/ch) compare to the Yamaha amplifiers (75W/ch)? Is Denon or Yamaha a better match for my JBL N26 and N-center speakers? I apparently tend to like a "bright" sound that is crisp for music and dialog.

    DSP of the Yamaha seems quite different in description between the Yamaha and the Denon. I read the manuals and the Yamaha has the typical DSP's like Jazz etc but it appears to have this 21 program with 41 variation DSP capability. How does the DSP of the Denon systems typically compare to the Yamaha based on your past experience?

    General questions:

    What is the difference between DTS ES Matrix 6.1 vs DTS ES Discrete 6.1? I am assuming that the difference is the Matrix has a phantom rear center channnel and the discrete had a dedicated "real" center output. Is this correct?

    I have seen DTS but what is DTS ES?

    The Denon 1802 is $499 Crutchfield

    The Yamaha 5550 is $399 Crutchfield

    The Yamaha 5560 is $499 Crutchfield

    Thanks ALL!!!
     
  2. John E F

    John E F Stunt Coordinator

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    I saw the the Yamaha HTR-5560 at Best Buy yesterday for $449. Looks like an awesome receiver for the price. DTS-ES matrix works like Dolby Digital EX, the rear surround is mixed in with the side surrounds then extracted from the two side surrounds via a matrix decoder like the old ProLogic. DTS-ES discrete has actual dedicated (discrete) info for the rear surround. I don't think there will be a night and day difference between the Denon and Yamaha amps at this price level. There isn't a huge difference between 80 watts and 75 watts. The Yamaha sure has a lot more features for the money like DD-EX, DTS-ES, component video, 6 amps, and preouts for all channels.
     
  3. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Capability of the amplifiers:
    Yamaha 5550.
    20hz to 20Khz 75watt (8 ohms)
    1Khz 80Watt (8 ohms)
    Dynamic power: 8/6/4/2 ohms 95/115/140/160 Watt
    THD 0.06% (seems like at 1khz also)
    Denon 1802
    20 to 20Khz 80 watt (8 ohms) 0.08%THD
    1kh 115 watt (6 ohms) 0.7% THD
    Dynamic power: 8/6/4/2 ohms 100/???/145/170 watt
    They give the information differently and also I really do not know what is significant in determining if the Yamaha amplifier is comperable to the Denon. Appreciate the help on this.
     
  4. Stephen Houdek

    Stephen Houdek Second Unit

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    I too have JBL speakers and find the Onkyo's to be a good match. You may want to look at the Onky 600 which is new and pretty competitive from what I've read.
     
  5. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    I have the Denon 1802 with a JBL N-26 package, and can tell you that they sound great for both music and movies. The Denon is a warm natural sounding receiver and well built. I tend to not like "bright" receivers, as I find it very distracting for general music listening. I have no experience with the Yamaha's, so couldn't speak for them.

    Reg
     
  6. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    The Dennon came highly recommended but now that I ended up delaying my purchase there are many "economy" units that have the DPL II capability becoming available. The Denon is highly recommended I know. The Yamaha was kind of interesting to me if it has the possibility of being as good as the Denon 1802. I have the 53HS10 Sony RPTV and this only has one component video so the Yamaha solves my problem when I switch to satelite. I can use this unit to switch between satelite and DVD. The other issue I have with both Onkyo and Denon is that you don't have a manufacturer warranty if you do not buy from an authorized dealer and none of their dealers discount the units (this just bugs me to no end). The Yamaha is sold in more places and in stores like Best Buy so the warranty issue is gone as well as the Yamaha's have the possibility of being sold below list and can be purchased at a local store.
    I am trying to find out if Yamaha's are highly regarded on this forum or are they poor performers? Also interested in the history of those that have the JBL's using them with the Yamaha's. I am most concerned about audio performance and less about features but I don't want to ignore the features. Thanks ALL
     
  7. Duane R

    Duane R Second Unit

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    I have a Yamaha/JBL setup myself. I was running an HTR-5460 (RXV-620) model with 4 ND-310's for the mains and surrounds along with the N-Center. Usage runs 70/30 music to movies. To me, it sounded really well. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 5560 last weekend, but the neighborhood Best Buy was out and wouldn't be getting anymore in until Tuesday [​IMG] I was being impatient, so I went over to SoundTrack and scored on an RXV-1200 for $746 and change instead [​IMG]
    There's really only a few differences between the two: the 1200 has a 12v trigger, a learning remote, DTS-ES Discrete, Neo: 6, and an extra 5 Watts per channel. To me it sounds great, and I think that you'd probably be pretty happy with the 5560. The funny thing about my shopping experience was that I was looking to spring for the 2200, but the excessive brightness steered me to the 1200--and I like a *little* bit of brightness.
     
  8. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Are the Yamaha's going to be too "bright" for the JBL N26 N-center?

    Do the Yamaha's tend to have amplifiers (power supplies) that can live up to the Denon in capability?
     
  9. WesleyHester

    WesleyHester Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry but I can only comment on Onkyo but I agree with Stephen Houdek 100% that the Onkyo and JBL combination is unmatched. I've had home theater friends over who have spent hundreds of dollars more for speakers actually get mad at how good my system sounds.

    I got JBL's bottom, bottom line the Northridge series. I got the NSP1 package with a N-Center and four N-24s. I use all of the N-24s as surrounds in a 6.1 setup and two additional N-38s as the mains. I would have gotten two JBL subwoofers but could not get them for a good price.

    Anyway, they handle the 100 RMS watts from the Onkyo without any problems. But you are right in asking around about receivers because some can emphasize different parts of the frequency spectrum more than others.

    I also agree with ReggieW in that the JBLs aren't too bright and are good for both movies AND music.

    Good luck in finding the right receiver for you and keep an open mind for Onkyo receiver's in that price range too.
     
  10. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Richard,
    Recent reports have indicated that the Yamaha receivers tend to be less "bright" than with previous models. I have a Denon 1802, so I'm a little biased towards Denon at the moment. However, I did have a chance to view and listen to the Yamaha 5560 yesterday at Best Buy. I thought the quality of the receiver was quite good. The inside of the receiver was packed with goodies (large capacitors, "meaty" heatsinks, etc.).
    If you do decide to go with the 5560, there's a vendor selling it on-line for $329 and the shipping should be a little less than $30 making this a steal of a receiver - Shop Sunshine 5560 Yamaha Receiver Also, this same vendor has the 5550 for $268 + shipping.
    The Best Buy that I visited also had an "open box" model of the 5550 for $283 - everything looked complete and not a bad price if one only needs 5 channels of output.
     
  11. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Appreciate the information on the Onkyo and have not ruled them out I was just trying to get a sence as to whether the The Yamaha receivers would have a good chance of being a good receiver for my N26 and N-center. I was using the Denon 1802 as an example of one that was highly recommended by many here at the forum for my system and the one I was planning to get until all these new units came out. If the Yamaha receivers tend to be a good match then based on features (now have DPL II) I might give the Yamaha a try (easy to get locally and likely to find it at a discount too no issue with the "authorized dealer" requirements of the Onkyo and Denon brands have).

    Thanks again!!
     
  12. Mike Veroukis

    Mike Veroukis Second Unit

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    If you're asking about build quality, I can tell you that Yamahas are built like tanks. Very reliable and last a long time.
    I don't know much about Denons but I would assume they're up there in the quality department as well.
    Between these two companies you'll basically just have to listen to the two and decide which one you prefer. From what I can tell both companies are respectable and have their own loyal followings. For every pro-Yamaha post there will be one pro-Denon and probably a few pro-Onkyo/Marantz posts as well. [​IMG]
    From what you mentioned above the component switching of the Yammie could be the deciding feature. It really will make life easier when you get a sat.
    - Mike
     
  13. Stephen Houdek

    Stephen Houdek Second Unit

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    Most of the upper Onkyo line, including the new 600, can do component switching (50Mhz). I'm pretty sure the Denon's you mention don't offer this capability.
     
  14. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Stephan:

    Just so I know what does the MHZ rating mean on the component video switching?

    Yes you are right the Denon does not have the component video switch.

    Mike:

    Yes I wanted to know if the yamaha's are well built and also if their amplifiers are concidered top notch "real" ratings. Many talk about power supply being a critical factor and just wanted to know if the Yamaha's are known for good transformers/amplifiers to handle the dynamic sound range.
     
  15. Mike Veroukis

    Mike Veroukis Second Unit

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    Well, as far as reliability is concerned keep track of this thread. As for the rest, I really can't say as I'm kinda new to all this myself.
    What I can say is that we have several Yamaha units in our home and I know many others with Yamaha and we're all pretty happy with them. No problems what so ever.
    Have you listened to the two units in question? No matter what we say, you have to be happy with how it sounds.
    - Mike
     
  16. Duke H

    Duke H Stunt Coordinator

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    I own the 5560 (rx-v630), and I love it. I prefer Yamaha to Denon, but they are both good products. In fact, they are sister companies (both owned by Nippon Electric). I've owned the Yamaha htr-5450 as well. I almost bought the htr-5280, but I got the 5560 instead. mHz is the bandwidth rating. The Yammie can carry a true HD signal. I am kinda' biased, though, as I work at Best Buy. For all you Onkyo owners....do Onkys still pop/click when switching from DTS to DD or vice versa? A friend at work bought his Yammie because of that. Another interesting point: check out the thread that talks about Yamaha's quality...they are about the only company that hasn't really had any true Q.C. problems. Nothing against Denon-I love their receivers. You really can't go wrong with either Denon or Yamaha. I also really like JBL speakers. I'm hoping to get a pair of S-38s soon.---PS: The Yamaha also has a lower THD rating (albeit only slightly lower), and more features.
     
  17. Duke H

    Duke H Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry--I was refering to the thread that Mike posted a link to.:b
     
  18. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Denon is Japans OLDEST electronics company and has been at it quite a long time. I hear the new Yammies are warmer which is a good thing, imho. Brightness in music to me is downright annoying, which is what prevented me from considering their older models. I was thoroughly fascinated with Yamaha before having the opportunity to check Denon and Onkyo out. In all fairness guys, at some time, units FROM ALL MANUFACTURER'S are known to have problems, especially with technology evolving at such a high rate. As far as Denon, if you buy the unit authorized, they'll handle any problems which may occur. Though I believe that Yamaha's are pretty reliable units, I would never base a purchase strictly on this alone. From time to time, there will just be lemons - its as simple as that.

    Reg
     
  19. DonnyD

    DonnyD Screenwriter

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    Having owned Yamahas for several years from a RXV596, 1105, to a 2095 and now to a RX-V1 and having ran Energy, Monitor Audio, and now all JBL, I still don't know what anyone means by "bright". To me, the Yamahas are very neutral and very clear. All my friends have various models of Yamaha receivers and most also have JBL speakers.

    I do find that if someone hits a cymbal, I want to hear a cymbal and not sound like it is covered with a towel.
     
  20. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Donny:
    Some good points at least for me. It is possible that I am using the term "bright" in a different light than intended. Let me explain what I meant and that my help better answer my questions
    "bright", when I say I like this what I mean is a cymbal have a nice crisp sound, Violins especially high notes are crisp clear and sound true, voice sounds true and does not have the mid to lower end of the voice frquencies overpower the highs so the voice sounds muffled.
    I am obviously no expert what I have read though leads me to beleive that feedback techniques vary from manufacturer to manufacturer to keep the "dynamic" characteristics of the amplifier/speaker interaction such that they are designed to give as true (quick responding same SPL) at all frequencies. Given that different speaker manufacturers have design characteristics of their own (for me I am specifically interested in JBL) the feedback interaction may be different such that the amplifier design may accentuate some of the frequencies more than others and result in a "bright" vs. "true" vs a "warm" sounding system.
    What I want is as "true" as I can get with the treble and Bass set at 0 db. From there I can play with the settings to my taste if needed. So maybe "bright" is the wrong term and I should be saying "True" sound. This is what I was interested in about pairing the Yamaha and the JBL N series speakers in that were they a good match.
     

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