Denon recievers no DD EX Why??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve Marsh, Sep 19, 2002.

  1. Steve Marsh

    Steve Marsh Stunt Coordinator

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    I have been looking at the Denon x802 line of recievers and was wondering why they have all kinds of DTS processing (ES, ES Discrete, Neo 6) but no DD EX unless you go to the top models.
    Whats up with that?
     
  2. Chris Purvis

    Chris Purvis Stunt Coordinator

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    probably the same reason it isn't present in the H/K line - Dolby made a deal with THX when DD EX came out - which was that it would be exclusive to THX certified decoders for one or two years. [​IMG]
    I remember hearing about this when it happened, but I'd forgotten about it until just this last week when I asked the same question, as I'm looking for a new receiver to use as a pre-pro myself.
     
  3. Peter Overduin

    Peter Overduin Supporting Actor

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    The 1803 - due out shortly (some already have it) has the DD-EX and DTS-ES. I have one on order and am eagerly awaiting it. If you can lay off the 02 series for a bit longer, the 1803 may be what you want.
     
  4. Walt N

    Walt N Second Unit

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    Some of the AVR-XX02 receivers have what Denon calls "Matrix 6.1 decoding". This is exactly the same as DD-EX minus the licensing agreement.
     
  5. Bolivar G

    Bolivar G Second Unit

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    My 4802 has THX surround EX. Is that the same thing??
    It also has seperate mtrx 6.1 , hmm now im getting confused [​IMG]
     
  6. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    What Chris says is essentially correct.

    THX Surround 7.1 came out about the same time as dts-ES. There was to be a Dolby EX but they scrapped it perhaps wanting to push THX as the success to ac3 5.1 - I remeber a handful of EX products coming out very early that were then scrapped. THX proved to be too expensive. However products had to be released before the introduction of EX 5.1 - and this is where the Denon and H/K products came out of.

    T.
     
  7. RichardMA

    RichardMA Second Unit

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    Lest anyone think all "EX" or matrix decoding is the
    same, it is not. Dolby EX, THX-EX, Circle Surround
    and the application of an old Pro-Logic unit to produce
    an "EX" channel are all different and sound different.
    They even have different claimed channel separation
    levels, hovering around 30db-40db.
     
  8. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    So how is DD EX different than THX Surround EX? I thought they were *exactly* the same. Like Tony said, there were a few components early on with THX Surround EX decoding, but my likewise impression was that the THX licensing was too expensive. So they came out with Dolby Digital EX, which to my knowledge was exactly the same, but no THX license fees required.

    And, if not straight DPL (perhaps in 3-channel mode, old Pioneer DPL decoders have this), how is that rear center info extracted from the surrounds?

    Circle Surround is different. Leaves more of the original info in the surrounds.
     
  9. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    Ummm...

    THX Surround EX 7.1 (ie. two matrix rears)

    Dolby Digitial EX 5.1 (ie. one matrix rear center)

    Isn't that the difference? Are there Dolby EX products with 7.1?

    T.
     
  10. Steve Marsh

    Steve Marsh Stunt Coordinator

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    I know how to tell for sure but I do not own the reciever. Denon owners try this.
    On Star Wars Ep 1 and some other discs there is a THX test signal in the menus called "optimode" It has a rear center signal. If your reciever plays this independent of the side surrounds then it does EX decoding.
    So Please Denon owners give it a try and let me know.
    Thanks Steve
     
  11. AaronBatiuk

    AaronBatiuk Second Unit

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    Respectfully, Tony, you are not right:
     
  12. Chris Purvis

    Chris Purvis Stunt Coordinator

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  13. Bolivar G

    Bolivar G Second Unit

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    Quote from that Article
     
  14. Chris Purvis

    Chris Purvis Stunt Coordinator

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    Oh yes is most assuredly does. Nice unit, by the way.
     
  15. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    If your unit has THX Surround EX well then you really have no need for Dolby EX.

    I have never seen an THX Surround EX products that were less than 7.1 decoded channels. I may have seen some Dolby EX products with 7.1 but most were 6.1 from memory. I could be wrong...

    T.
     
  16. Chris Brown

    Chris Brown Stunt Coordinator

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    My pioneer VSX-D811s has Dolby-EX... and it's no secret this is totally a budget receiver... is it just because the pioneer is a 2002 model and the denon's he was talking about are older models?

    So, a straight answer here, what is the difference between THX surround EX and Dolby Digital-EX. I always thought they were the same... which one is better and how are they different? Are movies like Episode 1 encoded in DD-EX or THX-EX?

    It really sucks when you read a thread and it blows away lots of things you thought you knew... blah.
     
  17. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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  18. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    Do people here have comprehension problems?

    This is what I wrote:

    "I have never seen an THX Surround EX products that were less than 7.1 decoded channels."

    This is what I didn't write:

    "I have never seen an THX Surround EX products that were less than 7.1 encoded channels."

    See the difference?

    Why do they have 6 or 7 channel amplifiers? I could care less how many channels are actually encoded... that is a known fact.

    All these people going on about how 6.1 and 7.1 don't exist... I am fully aware of that. That is not my concern. My concern is the existence of 6 and 7 channel equipment.

    T.
     
  19. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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    Talk of 7.1-channel systems in any context does nothing other than confuse the subject. There are 5.1 discrete channels and one derived channel. The differences between the two systems are how this information is reproduced.

    '7.1' by definition refers to discrete channels (regardless of its innacurate use by some manufacturers); not a combination of discrete and derived matrixed channels. If discussing the number of amplifier channels a system requires, then a full THX-EX system uses eight, but remains a 5.1-channel format.

    Adam
     
  20. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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