Denon, Pioneer Elite, Yamaha

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Chuck_W, May 5, 2004.

  1. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    I currently own the Pioneer VSX-D912 receiver. I've recently upgraded my speakers and subwoofer, and would like to upgrade my receiver. I want something with an automatic calibration system (including equalization) and I'm considering the following:

    Denon AVR-3805
    Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX
    Yamaha HTR-5790

    First of all...is it worth the upgrade? Will there be a noticeable improvement in sound quality to justify the expense? Will there be a noticeable improvement between the Pioneer 912 and the Elite 53? Is the Denon worth the extra $$ ?

    Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
    Thanks!

    Current setup:
    Pioneer VSX-D912
    Athena AS-F2
    Athena AS-C1
    Athena AS-R1
    SVS PB1-ISD
     
  2. Andy F

    Andy F Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    My vote would be for the Denon, even with the added expense.

    As for the Yamaha, you really should be looking at the RXV2400 in the price ranges you're going for.

    You really can't go wrong with either
     
  3. NickGL

    NickGL Agent

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    i've heard that yamaha A/B'd with Marantz and Onkyo Integras; the yamaha -despite it's admirable processing features- sounded muddy and compressed

    just my $.02
     
  4. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Might want to wait until august when Pioneer releases the VSX-1014. It's a standard Pioneer with elite amplification and full auto-mcacc, as well as the addition of PLIIx. It's pioneer list price is $700 which means it will (hopefully) street around $500. There are also tons of authorized Pioneer (non-elite) dealers online so you can buy cheap online without the worries of Pioneer not honoring the warranty (as is the case with Pioneer Elite, Denon, and the Yamaha RXV line). The VSX-1014 is probably going to be my replacement for my current Elite 43TX. I don't really feel the need to step up in amplification and the addition of full Auto-MCACC (with 5band room EQ just like the Elite 45TX, 53TX and 55TXi) and PLIIx (which the current comparable Elite models lack) make this receiver one heck of a deal when it becomes available.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
  5. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nick...that was the 5790 that sounded muddy?

    Andy, thanks for the suggestion of the Yamaha RXV...I'm looking at it on their website.

    Stephen...you read the back of my mind. I read about the 1014 coming in August, but wasn't sure if I could wait that long. Do you know if it has the same amp as in the current 53TX? Even if I got a terrific deal on the 53TX, I doubt if I would get it for $500. I take it you're happy with your Elite since you plan to stick with Pioneer?

    So the Yamaha RXV2400 and (future)Pioneer VSX-1014 are options as well....

    Great input from all...thanks!
     
  6. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chuck,
    If you can go find a place that carries them and do a A/B comparison. Might be hard to find though....I know I can find a place to compare the denon/Yamaha but only one place carries Pioneer Elite(but they don't carry any other High End Receivers).

    The new Denon's look nice.

    Too bad the 1014 Pioneer isn't out with the rest of the X14 models.
     
  7. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're right. I think I can find a place that has the Yamaha (RX) and Pioneer Elite, but I don't think they have the Denon yet....
     
  8. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best anyone can tell by the info released by pioneer it will be an Elite in Standard Pioneer dress. I've been very happy with my Elite 43TX, just wish it had the Auto-MCACC. I got it from Tweeter when they were clearing them out for around $500 and it'll be right at a year old when the 1014 hits, so I might as well pick up the 1014 for the PLIIx and Auto-MCACC while I can still sell my 43TX with about a year left on the warranty.
     
  9. Rob Kramer

    Rob Kramer Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    0
    The 5790 is identical to the 1400. Same receiver, just different sales channel.

    A new "non-warranty" 53 elite can be found for $650. I would prefer an elite (even w/ no warr) over a non-elite anyday. Its more than just a label plate.

    PLIIx is only used for 7.1. Professional reviews on PLIIx that Ive read list it as over-rated (Sound & Vision). Yam users do like it though, however Ive read here on this board* that yam didnt go good 5.1, so maybe in that case PLIIx is better.

    *From a Yam owner comparing his new flagship to his 2400. He said the rears never did blend well. Always sounded separate. Or something like that. Search on "flagship" if interested.

    As for me, I prefer the Onkyo/Integra sound. Pio was a bit boomy, Yam a bit thin.
     
  10. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Rob...which Pioneer did you find to be a bit boomy? An Elite?

    I wonder if the new Pioneer 1014 will close the gap between the Elites and the standard line. As stated in an earlier thread, it looks like it may share an Elite amp.

    PLIIx is not all that important to me, but I wouldn't mind having it just to future-proof things a bit.

    Onkyo/Integra ever come out with something that has an auto-calibration system?
     
  11. Rob Kramer

    Rob Kramer Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    0


    I would refer to the AVS forum for this question. They have some big Pio fans over there. I would say that caps, dacs, build quality, and sound will always be superior in the elite line.
     
  12. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chuck, for what its worth I've been able to compare the Denon 3805, Yamaha 2400 and Pioneer Elite 53TX side by side. This was through Paradigm monitor speakers if that matters any. I found the Denon to have a warmer, smoother sound which was consistent to what I heard with the 3803. The Pioneer sounded more neutral and a bit forward. The Yamaha sounded very similar to the Pioneer with just a bit more air to it. My findings are a pretty common conclusion with these brands. My main intention was comparing the Pioneer to the Yamaha as I already have the 53TX but was tempted by the Yamaha. I'm glad I stayed with the Pioneer as the Yamaha sounded very similar and I've read the YPAO can be problematic. But those Yamahas have excellent prices considering what they offer. It all boils down to what kind of sound you like. I think any of your choices would be a good upgrade, plus you wont be always wondering what if.
     
  13. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0


    I really don't think this is necessarily (or even likely) true in this particular case. The fact is Pioneer's entry level Elite (the 41) is a rebadged standard Pioneer 811. The ONLY differences are the glossy black face, a small LCD on the remote, and Re-EQ processing. They are made on the same line in the same factory. It looks like they're doing the same thing now, but the other way around (rebadging an Elite as standard Pioneer).

    It's all about economy of scale. There's a very good chance they can make the 1014 for much less than a completely new less beefy model simply because the R&D is done and the supply chain and manufacturing are in place, as well as savings from bulk parts and not needing to retool or retrain the workforce.

    The list price also has me leaning toward it being a rebadged elite because Pioneer hasn't had a standard model list for a price this high in quite awhile. The fact that it's THX certified and has FULL Auto-MCACC (not just level adjustment) are all indicators to a rebadged elite since these are ALL features ONLY available in what seem to be the similar elite models.

    This receiver will probably be the basis for the next entry level elite (replacement for the 53TX) since it carries PLIIx which none of the current similar elite models (53TX, 55TXi) do.
     
  14. Rob Kramer

    Rob Kramer Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    0


    Yes, that is true. However, I was under the impression (from the "elite" folks) that the 41 is (was) not up to the same standard as the other [elite] models. Pio was just looking for an entry level rec to satisfy their elite dealers.
     
  15. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Ben....excellent info. I've heard other Denon receivers with Klipsch reference speakers and I did like the sound...I assume the Klipsch-Denon match is a popular one because of the warmer receiver/brighter speaker combo.
     
  16. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes I've compared the Denon 3803 to the Pioneer Elite 55TXi through Klipsch reference speakers and the Denon was just too warm sounding for me. The difference was immediately noticeable. But I know the Denon and Klipsch are a very popular combo. I've read the Denon 3805 doesnt sound as warm to some peoples dismay.
     
  17. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ben - I've read the same thing about the 3805 (being less warm than older Denons). What speakers do you run with the 53TX? I know you noted that the Denon had a warmer, smoother sound...still too warm for you?
     
  18. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's true about the Elite 41, i'm just saying it can work both ways. It's also possible there is some new technology on the horizon that will differentiate tbe next batch of Elite's from the upcomming 1014, but i really doubt it.
     
  19. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chuck, I run Klipsch reference speakers with my 53TX. When I listened to the Denon 3803 against the Pioneer 55TXi the differences were immediately apparent. That was at a store through Klipsch reference speakers. When I compared the Denon 3805 with the Pioneer 53TX through Paradigm speakers at another store I didnt notice an immediate difference like I did with the 3803. Its still warmer sounding than the Pioneer but possibly not as much as the 3803. Thats a good thing for me though. I like my 53TX quite a bit but I might give the Denon 2805 a try when it comes out since its more in my price range and it sounds like Denons auto cal is a winner. It never ends [​IMG]
     
  20. Chuck_W

    Chuck_W Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting. Any idea when the 2805 is coming out, or how it will be priced? The 3805 is a bit pricey...is it true that for that price they don't even include the microphone??

    Are you interested in the Denon because of a more extensive auto-equalization than your Pioneer, or the sound quality or features?
     

Share This Page