Denon DVD-2900 vs. DVD-5900 Help! (1 Viewer)

[CurtisC]

With high end dvd players the more you spend the more you get burned.If you spend 1k to 2k today,next year this time it will be maybe worth half.The players next year will do more for 1/3 the price.This just happens to be very quickly improving technology,not like amps,speakers,etc..I suggest gettin'a good unit about 500 bucks new or used and not gettin' stuck with an inferior(next month prolly) player that cost maybe 2k.This does NOT apply if you got $ coming out the wazoo,just eat the 1k and cough up another 2 or 3k next year when they ALL say your unit just don't cut it no mo.

 

[BobH]

Stephen M:

Amongst all this, you called Denon a "mid-fi" brand and I think suggested that Linn would be a "hi-fi" brand to consider. That got me interested.

I might understand Denon being put in the "mid-fi" category because it is Japanese like Sony, Pioneer, etc. and those are often considered "mid-fi" by some people. I find it much easier to recognize hi-fi or high end brands of amplifiers and I think I have that. So I should have a hi-fi source as well, but I haven't seen any in the 1k to 2k region that are universal. The hi-fi brands are still doing stereo and only one format. The "mid-fi" brands are pumping out what appear to be technically superior products.

I will look into Linn. I would be interested in anything else you folks out there would consider hi-fi and at least as good as Denon and also universal. Anything? If not, then the 2900 v 5900 debate is relevant even to a hi-fi setup.

 

[Lewis Besze]

MC Cormack has a Uni player the UDP-1 sells for $2995
Bel Canto also has one, but don't know the price on that one.
http://www.belcantodesign.com/index2.html

Esoteric Audio's DV-50 is :$5500
The affored mentioned Lynn is about $10k! I agree most of these players are "modified" Japanese "mid-Fi" players under the hood,the Mc Cormack is based on some "obselete" player from years ago.

 

[Stephen M]

Bob H: Well, that rant was in response to Levesque's bizzare comparison of a 5900 to a Porche. I have heard a Unidisk 2.1 by Linn at a dealers. Since it cost over $10K, and there is no way I could ever afford it, I did not ask for a home trial. It is very good by the way.
David: Home trials should not be hard to arrange with a good dealer. Over the years I have done this many times with different dealers. As long as you are serious about buying and not just wasting time, a good dealer will give you the product to take home for testing. Testing at the dealer is not a waste of time either since you are comparing one dvd player to another. If you use the same display device and same dvd, you can see if the picture is the same, better or worse. Audio is probably the same since you are comparing the same players on the same system. While home trial is better and advised, a dealer demo is also enlightening IMO. Finally, the education you receive on this forum may not be too helpful since most people tell you they like one model better than another. That really tells you nothing about the players in question and as I noted in an earlier post,it is not clear if decisions were made on first hand comparison or word of mouth. If users would give specific examples of movies or music they have listened to or watched and where they saw or heard a difference, such info would prove more useful to you since you could take the same dvd to a dealer and test out the same portion for yourself. Both the 2900 and the 5900 are great products and neither should disappoint. The only issue is whether it worth $1000 more to you to buy the 5900. Only you can make that decision and I suggest you do a real comparison yourself and not rely on what me or anyone else thinks.

 

[Levesque]

Secrets review of the 5900 by Kris Deering.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-2-2004.html

Interesting quotes:

"Aside from all that, the video output on this player is nothing short of phenomenal. For quite sometime now we at Secrets have regarded the Panasonic RP-82 and Denon DVD-1600 to be about as good as it gets in terms of video quality. The 5900 surpasses that standard. Remember that both of the previously mentioned players have excellent internal components including Faroudja deinterlacing and Panasonic’s excellent MPEG decoder. But the 5900 surpasses these with a better analog stage that produces a crisper image with excellent depth and clarity. This is similar to what we found with Krell’s excellent analog stage. Denon has pretty much combined the best of both worlds with this unit and rivals anything I have seen to date."

"I had lots of time with this unit and really put it through its paces with music. I listened to a lot of CDs, DVD-As and SACDs. It is very rare for a player to do all formats so well, but you get no tradeoffs here.

This player reminded me a lot of its big brother, the DVD-9000. The depth and articulation of sound are phenomenal. One could easily look to this as a staple piece in a music only system. In fact the only players that edge it out, performance wise, that I’ve heard personally, are the Krell DVD Standard with CDs and the Meridian series with DVD-Audio. But these players start out at over three times the cost or more, and the differences weren’t enough to weigh in at those costs."


"While not a perfect player, the Denon DVD-5900 is the most all inclusive player I have had the privilege of using to date. It is by far the best Universal Player I have tested and the new reference in this category. The video performance is second to none, and the audio performance is the best I’ve heard in this price range, rivaling players that cost significantly more."

 

[Levesque]

"I have heard both the 2900 and 5900 at a dealers showroom. While there are differences, they are subtle and subjective. I'd rather save $1000 and get the 2900, but that opinion was based on hands on experience and not a 1000 man thread testimonial."

I don't understand. there's alot of 5900 owners there that did compare the 5900 in-house with their own players (and not at the dealer). It's not base on experience? Come on.

Hey Stephen M. Instead of posting this "dealer showroom" (LOL) comparison, why don't you go post your opinions on this 1000 long thread about the 5900 that you seem to consider useless for the original poster (or for anyone else if we read between the lines), and how do you say: "It is hardly surprising that people who have paid twice as much for a player will defend their decision to upgrade"...

Go say this to all the dudes that had the Esoteric universal, some Sony's dedicated players, others the 2900, other the 3800, and I forgot some. Yes some peoples were owning players that were worth MORE then the 5900, and decided to DOWNGRADE to the 5900.

Maybe their opinion is worthwhile then? Or else... go tell them it's useless...

But I could bet alot of money that you will never go there confront those owners, because you know that you are wrong, and that a "dealer showroom" is not a real test. Bring it home with a 2900, then come share your opinion. Or else it's useless. A dealer showroom comparison. LOL

By reading what you said earlier, we can think that all those users were posting useless opinions, and yours is the only useful one. You are discrediting the opinion of all those posters. Why would those opinons be worthless? Please explain.

 

[chung_sotheby]

Levesque,
I think that you might not be understanding Stephen M correctly. What he is trying to say is that in making a decision, one's own experiences far outweigh the published experiences of others. By saying:

"I have heard both the 2900 and 5900 at a dealers showroom. While there are differences, they are subtle and subjective. I'd rather save $1000 and get the 2900, but that opinion was based on hands on experience and not a 1000 man thread testimonial."

He is in no way discrediting the opinions and impressions of the 1000+ posters of that thread. What he is saying is that even the most fickle, honored and respected expert opinion is still not your own. And in that, he based his decision of saving $1000 by buying a player that he, through personal experience rather than the opinions of others, thought was almost as good as the more expensive player. In other words, through his demoing process the price vs. performance differences of the 2900 and 5900, in his mind, were not worth the $1000 premium for the more expensive player.

I think that you might be lashing out a little bit, as Stephen's statement of "It is hardly surprising that people who have paid twice as much for a player will defend their decision to upgrade" was somewhat of a blanket one, and you may have thought he was directly implying you, which may or not be the case. While Stephen's statement may or may not have some merit, I don't think that it is reason to twist his words and accuse him of remarks made against you that he never implied, nonetheless wrote or said.

I think you may have been off line by stating "But I could bet alot of money that you will never go there confront those owners, because you know that you are wrong, and that a "dealer showroom" is not a real test. Bring it home with a 2900, then come share your opinion. Or else it's useless. A dealer showroom comparison. LOL," as I don't think that it was Stephen's intention to "confront" anyone, as you have verbally confronted him. I just think that he was stating his opinion, showing that while the majority of people who compared the 2900 and 5900 ended up sticking with the more expensive 5900, he did not, as the cost vs benefit was not to his liking.

And by the way, a showroom comparison, while not optimal, is nothing to sneeze at. If the dealer happens to let you demo a unit on his $20k projector, $40k processor, $50K amps, and $100k speakers in an acoustically treated room, don't you think that the sonic benefits and/or deficiences of said unit would be unveiled, albeit not with the exact same parameters as if the demo had been done in one's own system? Just food for thought.

P.S. And, oh yeah, IMHO

 

[Stephen M]

Gee, Levesque, you are the biggest hypocrite! All I ever said was I believed that it is better to compare the 2900 directly to the 5900 and make a decision for yourself. You have said on two occassions that this is true, but your posts show that you really mean that since Secrets and your 1000 man thread favor the 5900, it would be lunacy to prefer the 2900!!! So which is it, your ears and eyes or that of the "experts?" Your posts prove that you rely on what others tell you to do. That is fine with me, but not what I agree is best. Your initial comparison of your 5900 to a Porche was more revealing of your attitude than you wished to be known. By comparing the two, you implied that your taste in equipment was more sophisticated and refined than that of the regular listener. Ergo, your statement that my opinion was a "joe six-pack opinion." What a joke. Typical ignorant assumption by someone who knows nothing about me or my equipment. Did you ever work for a snooty hi-fi store where the salesman looked down his nose if you failed to hear the same things he professed to hear?? As I have said ad nauseum, I appreciate reading other people's opinions about gear for the general info it provides, but I will make final buying decisions myself based on my experience. You obviously need the reaffirmation of the 1000 man thread and Secrets reveiws to convince yourself you made the right decision. I seem to remember a year or so ago you were gaga about Rotel gear but then did a 180 and bought Anthem, Bryston etc. Did your dealer tell you to do this or did the various threads here and in other forums convince you it was time to change? Keep in mind the original poster asked which was better. If he wants to take a poll and make a decision based on what you tell him to do, that is his perogative. I simply think that in the long run you are happier with the decisions you make on your own and not on what others tell you to do. You need others to the confirm the wisdom of your decision. While I like that feedback myself, I can live with my decision if it is truly mine. BTW: Thanks, Chung, for your defense. In twenty years of hi-fi life, it never ceases to amaze me how angry it makes people when you say listen for yourself and decide. Used to be people let the absolute sound or stereophile decide for them. Now it is Secrets and the long threads on forums like this. The more times change.....

 

[Douglas_H]

David,
If you are still watching, let me ask you a couple questions.
Is DVI important you? What kind of display do you have? Are you a casual AudioVideo person or are you particular?
Since you looking for a universal, I'm assuming that you want to listen to hi-res and not just cd.
Listening at a dealer can be worthwhile or worthless. There are some fairly meaningful differences bwtn the 2900 & 5900 in regards to configuration ability. IMO, the 5900 occupies a higher-end sweet spot.
It excels in audio & video and is far less than other comparable universals with the exception of the 59-avi. Where the 5900 beats the 59-avi is in build quality and internal components.
If you have a Good Guys nearby, you can purchase the 5900 and a 2900 and audition them both. But be aware that like a pre/pro, the 5900 takes some time to get familiar with and to get the most out of.
I've had mine since Nov and have not regretted it a bit. Taken as a complete package, the 5900 offers exceptional value and performance. Say what you want about the tests that Secrets performs but they're objective and backed up with hard data.
BTW, I love some of the expert opinions in this thread from people who have never seen one let alone heard or listened to one.

 

[Stephen M]

Doug, what do you mean when you say the 5900 occupies a higher end sweet spot?

 

[Levesque]

Lol Stephen. you are one of a kind! You really made my day.

I ALWAYS bring gears at my place before buying anything. If you look at the 1000 posts thread you love so much you will see I was the one starting it! So there was no one owning one at that time, so how can I buy by listening to others opinion when I'm the first? LOL. You are really funny. You should click on those links other are posting and go read them. We put them there for a reason.

I brought the 5900 home, with a 2900, and I was already owning a 3800. I didn't compare it at my dealer. It was in my home.

The 5900 was out in canada 1 month before the U.S. So there was NOT a single post or review on the 5900 when I started the thread on AVS and bought one. So do you still think I buy only with the opinion of poster?

''Did your dealer tell you to do this or did the various threads here and in other forums convince you it was time to change? ''

I was one of the 50 first owners of a 5900 in all north america. So how could I have read anything on it? Go see. I started the thread! By saying that, you are just proving you don't read the link we post. read the 1st answer to my thread in AVS. the guy told me he didn't knew the 5900 was already out!

When I bought the Bryston 4BSST, I brought 4 amps (yes 4 100 pounds beasts) home to compare with my Rotel. I just ordered an Anthem P5 to poweer my Paradigm Signature (again an early adopter of those speakers...) . I will do extensive listening sessions at home before paying anything for it. I will AGAIN be one of the early adopter.

''BTW, I love some of the expert opinions in this thread from people who have never seen one let alone heard or listened to one.''

I think he was talking to you Stephen...

It was my last post in here. I did post some informative links to the original posters to help him.

Good luck.

Hey Stephen. Have fun. You are really a funny attorney!

 

[Levesque]

Chung. You are right. Sorry i didn't answer your post.

I did jump on Stephen because I'm tired of 2900 owners trying to convince other (and themselves) that it's a better '''deal'' then the 5900. And that all the 5900 buyers are ''influence'' by others, or fallowing others opinion, etc. Tired of those saying we are ''justifying'' our expanse, and that Denon ''had'' us, or that we were blinded by the smoke and didn't made a good decision by buying it. Like 2900 owners know something 5900 owners don't know...

You like your 2900, it's ok. But get over the fact that Denon made a newer and better player then the 2900. That's it.

I still don't understand why people here don't like it when someone ask for information on some gear, and then we post some links to discussion about it in other forums, and to some very well made and professionnal review (Secrets), and then bash it. It's a forum here! to DISCUSS gear like it was done on AVS... Why is it that people opinions there are of less value then people posting here?

The first poster did ask about the 5900. i did put a link to a mega-thread about it. What's the problem? Maybe someone on AVS will post a link to this thread here someday... That's the reason why those forums exists. Why put it aside with the side of the hand like it's useless to read a 1000 posts long thread about a gear you are interested in?

Gesh.

Why wouls Stephen's opinion worth more then those hundred of owners posting on AVS, and that did compare the 5900 in house and at their dealers with different DVD-players?

 

[Douglas_H]

Stephen,
Good question, I'm trying to figure that out myself.
I think the 5900 has components & features that place it in direct comparison to players that cost a lot more, Esoteric, Meridian, Bel Canto, etc.
While on a direct scale the 5900 may/will not equal the performance of these players it comes very close.
Subjectively, some buyers will feel the extra performance offered by the high-end units is worth the cost. For me, the 5900 reaches the point of diminishing return.
The performance gained by spending 2x to 3x+ is either not worth it me, will be largely unrealized in my current system or will be better spent on other components.
That's one reason I asked the original poster for more info on his system and his criteria.
For me, the 5900 satisfies the level of performance & features I seek at a price I can live with.
Whether anyone thinks the 5900 is worth the extra cost over the 2900 or not, the 5900 is a better piece of gear.

 

[Dave Mack]

Hey guys,

sorry if this has been discussed, but does this player output PAL as well? And can it be made region free? Does it convert PAL-NTSC, or just output PAL directly?

Thanx!

 

[Stephen M]

Levesque, I assume English is your third language based on your dense and illogical posts. Read the following carefully....LISTEN FOR YOURSELF! That is the message I have consistently stressed in this and other threads. I do not care if you got the one of the first fifty of any dvd player in so far as my opinion of performance is concerned. I make the decision based on my listening and watching exeperience, not yours. I am impressed with the positive experiences so many have had with the 5900. But a purchase decision should be made on personal experience and comparisons IMO. It appears that some would rather be advised on what to buy but I find the results more satisfactory when I can test both players and chose the one that works best for me. Keep in mind that the original poster asked whether is was worth it to pay an extra $1,000 for the 5900. If he takes the time to compare himself, his decision will be based on what is important to him and his personal reaction to the players. If he wants to buy based on recommendations rather than personal experience that is his perogative too. But it occurs to me that a dealer who wants $1000 dollars more for a dvd player should be able to demonstrate its superiority in the showroom. If the buyer does not plan to listen for himself I recommend he buy the 5900 since it is an excellent machine and has a lot of supporters. Nothing is worse than buyer's remorse and getting a less expensive player when you want the more expensive one

 

[chung_sotheby]

For anyone interested:

The line is 3:2 in favor of Levesque. Fight start time is 11:28 EST, at the Mohegan Sun. Levesque weighed in at 215 lbs. with a reach of 78", while Stephen weighed in at 212 1/2 lbs, with a reach of 76 3/4".

I got $50 on the Frenchman. I have played against some toughies out of the QMJHL and I know that they can get downright nasty. Any Takers?

 

[Stephen M]

No mas (Third language)

 

[Levesque]

Double post.

 

[Levesque]

"Levesque, I assume English is your third language based on your dense and illogical posts"

Stephen.

I did report you to the moderator.

Beeing french has nothing to do with my opinion on the 5900 and the 2900.

I hope you will be put back on track.

I feel sorry if you have to bring this up to have the last word. I'm french. And I speak Italian to. Why don't you try to answer me in french?

 

[Michael Reuben]

The fight has been called. Both contenders will step out of this thread now and permanently. Others may continue the discussion, if they so choose.

M.