Denon Backlash?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marvin E, Feb 12, 2002.

  1. Marvin E

    Marvin E Stunt Coordinator

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    I hate to open the never-ending warranty debate, but I thought it was interesting that Discount Home Electronics no longer sells Denon Receivers. This statement appeared on the Website:

    "We have dropped all Denon products due to their refusal to honor warranties."
     
  2. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    You will see that Denon will have to modify its position to stay competitive. Sony, JVC, Onkyo etc are examples of how it should be done. I have a Denon 3802 and bought it from 6th ave(authorized dealer)[email protected] for a steal. If the price would have been higher I would have bought the 898 at JR and the 5es at OADES. Etronics is a good place to buy stuff if you want to save a couple of dollars.
    But I made up my mind that if the price was not right, I would vote with my wallet.[​IMG]
     
  3. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

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    It should be pointed out that there are many companies that do not share some consumer's opinion that whoring out products on the Internet is the best way to conduct business. Brick & mortar stores are the foundation of this country's retail economy and some companies do what they can to protect their dealers. Denon is one of these.

    This is not an issue of trying to keep prices high just for the sake of higher profits or to screw the consumer, it is about maintaining a viable economic climate for retailers to survive. Some companies still care about actual customer service. To them, customer service extends beyond a web site and a toll-free answering service.

    Denon is not simply "not honoring warranties". They are not honoring warranties on products sold by unauthorized dealers or by dealers who sell in violation of dealer agreements. Customers and potential customers of Denon should not be complaining about having to pay a little more for their products. They should, instead, be pleased they are dealing with a company that takes its commitment to customer service seriously.

    I'm not preaching to anyone in particular, just trying to present the other side of the issue.
     
  4. JerryW

    JerryW Supporting Actor

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    "Times they are a-changin'." Pretty soon that won't be the case any longer. If these B&Ms don't change their ways fast and learn to be more competitive with etailers, they're going to go the way of the dodo.
     
  5. Bobby Crumpley

    Bobby Crumpley Auditioning

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    "It should be pointed out that there are many companies that do not share some consumer's opinion that whoring out products ..."

    __________________________________________________ ________

    Obi,

    I think that you are right about this being Denon's approach to this, and it is admirable. However, I just find it ironic that it goes against the Japanese business culture of dumping product over here, price be damned.

    Bobby
     
  6. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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  7. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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  8. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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  9. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

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    Jerry,

    Your problem seems to be with your local dealer, not Denon.

    Besides, you can always ship directly to a Denon service center should you require service.
     
  10. JerryW

    JerryW Supporting Actor

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    Actually, my problem is with my local dealer AND Denon. If Denon had the testicles to tell my local dealer that they must repair all Denon's products that are purchased from an authorized dealer this would all be a moot point. As it stands though, I'm not impressed.
     
  11. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

     
  12. Jeffrey_Jones

    Jeffrey_Jones Second Unit

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    Hello,

    Where does the assumption that online retailers provide bad customer service come from? I have had better luck with purchases made online then from many B&M retailers. The sales people are often more helpful/knowledgeable and less judgmental (in my experience).

    It sounds like Jerry's Denon dealer has had the luxury of operating without any real competition and has been able to keep prices high. Many HT retailers have enjoyed this very profitable situation in the past but the Internet is quickly changing that. Consumers have more choices and I consider that a very good thing. Internet prices are likely to rise as that market gets settled, but you can bet that B&M prices are going to have to come down to something more reasonable.

    Our economy is based on competition within any given market and that is what we are seeing. It's a welcome change in my opinion.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  13. Bill Lucas

    Bill Lucas Supporting Actor

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    "Now, let's take for instance the price of a new, factory sealed, 3802 from a reputable non-authorized etailer like crazy eddie's, $729."

    Crazy Eddie's reputable? Last time I checked our friend "Crazy Eddie" is still out of the country evading prosecution and his cousin in New York is using his name to run a business that buys product gray and sells it under manufacturer recommended prices without being a dealer of the product being sold. If this is an example of a reputable dealer then I'd hate to see an example of an irreputable dealer.

    I agree with Obi. Until an e-tailer can demo, support, service (on Christmas Eve if necessary) and stock product they'll be second rate. This trend of shoppers on the Internet that only think they get a good deal if it comes at a rock bottom price is adsurd. It is no longer good enough for some to attain the equipment that they desire. If they don't get it at a steep discount they now feel ripped off. Many of the best performing brands available are not discounted at all unless the dealer chooses to give a moderate discount to a good customer. There is NOTHING wrong with this practice. The dealer is rewarding the customer for loyalty. Off the top of my head I can name Paradigm, Dynaudio, Meridian, Bryston, and B&W. There are many more. What no one has taken into account is the steep overhead that a B&M store deals with to display and stock product. Regards.
     
  14. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

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    The Internet has created what I call "irrational consumerism". That is, the attitude of some that they are entitled to buy a product at a price so low it may even be below the sellers cost. If a company that sells at these kinds of discounts fails, so what, there will be another to take their place.

    This sort of merry-go-round of failure is bad for business, bad for a market economy, and ultimately bad for the consumer. If one takes a longer view than where the next discount is coming from, this is very evident.

    Like just about eveyone here, I also use the Internet for some purchases, but I would hate to think that was my only source for goods and services. I'm all for getting the best deal on a product, but I also understand that if one does not support the infrastructure, then sooner or later there will be no infrastructure to support you.
     
  15. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Bill: I agree with you on one thing, Crazy Eddie is NOT a reputable dealer. Onecall, Oade, J&R, TSTO, Parts Express and a few dozen more are reputable. As for the rest, I'll address below.
     
  16. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

     
  17. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    Guys, why are we only concentrating on Authorized vs. Non Authorized? In reality, a lot of Denon's and Onkyo's Authorized etailers are hurting their B&M counterparts. How? Well here's a perfect example. Onkyo demands that the authorized B&Ms & Etailers sell the 898 for A$1499. However we do know that some autorized etailers are selling the 898 for way below that price. I believe you can get the 898 from some authorized etailer for $1100.

    Now if a small Authorized B&M tries to sell this for that price he gets a lot of flak from his sales rep. But, the big authorized etailers get away with this because they sell volume and when it comes to the issue of testacles, Neither Onkyo nor Denon have the testacles to tell their big online etailer not to sell the 898 for $1100.

    So you see not only are the non-authorized etailers hurting some B&Ms but also some authorized etailers are hurting the B&Ms too.

    Smart thing to do is go to a small authorized B&M with fewer overheads and ask him to come close to matching online prices and chances are they will come very close if not match them.
     
  18. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

     
  19. Kevin T

    Kevin T Screenwriter

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    in my own personal experience, i've found that b&m dealers are just too childish to bother dealing with. i have two local dealers (one sells denon, adcom, mirage, sunfire / the other sells marantz, b&w, paradigm, anthem, bryston). i went into the "higher" end dealer just looking for an audio rack. i told him what i was using as gear and he basically started bashing everything i had. case in point

    me: "i have an acurus a200x5 for an amplifier"

    him: "we used to carry that stuff but it was total garbage...always breaking...even the aragon line"

    me: "i have a pair of mirage frx-7 speakers"

    him: "we prefer paradigm...any dealer that sells mirage is selling them just because they can't get paradigm"

    how childish is this?! he feels the need to belittle my equipment and his competition for what? my favorite quote though was this one:

    him: "we occasionally sell to college students but our clientele is predominantly 50-70 and RICH!"

    i am seriously interested in looking at upgrading my speakers in the future and would like to demo some b&w cdm-nt (7 or 9) series but now i think i'd rather drive the hour and half to the next b&w dealer rather than deal with this guy. granted i'm not rich by any means but i've been out of college for 3 years and i have no trouble laying down 2-3k on a piece of equipment if i feel it's worth the premium. oh well, i guess the geriatric generation will keep him in business...but i'm taking my money elsewhere.

    kevin t
     
  20. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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    Let me relate my Denon story:

    About two years ago, I bought a 3300 receiver from Audio Buys in Fairfax (Now Manassas). They gave me a decent discount (List was $1000. They sold it to me for $920.) and I had the thing in my grubby hands.

    About 6 months later, some of the inputs go bad. So, I take it back. They immediatly exchange it for a brand new one. I leave happy.

    About a year after that, a lightning strike fries the receiver. I take it in to get it fixed. They send it off to Denon. It takes a couple of months (apparently, they needed to get a part from Japan), but it comes back fixed. Even better, when they exchanged it the last time, the warrenty was reset to that time. So, I have a extra 6 month warrenty. Great!

    The question is, would I get this type of service with an online retailer? I have a feeling probably not.

    This is why I almost never buy big ticket items like this online. You never know what might go wrong. Then, if something does, you might have to pay to ship it out, or it might not even be fixed.

    Audio Buys has been great to me and I'd definitly do business with them again.

    Jason
     

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