Denon AVR-5805.........Second look:Wow! (1 Viewer)

[Lewis Besze]

Perhaps if I rephrased it this way: all others don't have the same features of the Denon,or the latest DSP and parts,or both.Therefore they're not in the same leauge,so naturally they cost less.If I wanted the most complete up to date receiver/pre/pro I have only one choice right now,the 5805 The others are no "substitute".If you look back in the past 5 years there were always one receiver that stood above all others,untill the rest catch up.It wasn't always Denon,it seems that the major manufacturers are in "war" for the "biggest baddest receiver" title,and this "war" will go on I'm sure.

 

[Bob Lvl]

Personally I think you would be much wiser to spend your money a good separates. The sound quality from separates is usually superior.

For about the same price I would recommend a Rotel surround sound processor and 5 channel amp.

 

[PerryD]

The problem is that receivers are becoming obsolete too quickly. I replaced my Pioneer prologic reciever (1991) with a Onkyo 838 in 1996 to get Dolby Digital, then replaced it again in 2001 with a Denon 3802 to get DTS and Prologic 2. Now I am itching to upgrade again to get auto-equalization and HD component switching. But I know I should wait at least until HDMI switching capability is added.

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi,
Some recievers maybe becoming obsolete but I would have to argue that fact when it comes to Denon.

I have a 5800 which I had upgraded to 95% 5803 status which gives me everything my HT is liable to need in my lifetime. A major part of that is mt HT which consists of a CRT based 65" rptv which only has component in.

The 5800/03 is a THX Ultra II 7.1. Well there to this day is no true discrete 7.1 software. The closest thing I experiece is DTS 6.1 Discrete. I have 9 speakers attached and use my timbre matched 5 Totem model 1 speakers for HIREZ music which are fed by two mltidisk players into Denon's 2 sets of analogs.

When watching film I add in a pair of Axiom dipole QS4's and for effect a pair of Monitor Bronze bookshelves.

I have a HTPC which has the HOLO3D scaler and an SDI modded RP82 to scale everything to 1080i which when A/B'd with HD recordings from my cable decoder/HDpvr is dam close to it's HD counterpart.

The sound and picture is awsome in my 12 X 15 X 8 HT
What in the world is going to improve on such a scale that would encourage me to change assuming even that I decide to upgrade my 5800/03 with any new bobbles that Denon may offer it.

My CRT is ISF'd completely and still provides a better picture than anything I've seen anywhere. EVEN if something slightly better comes along it cannot be Head and Shoulders better than what I have.

From a practicality stand point with the thought of the cost of cabeling in mind, even if I had a duplicat larger or smaller second zone, I would add a used 5803 or do what I have now for Zone II, use my Onkyo 575 set up in a 3.1 config which is just fine.

The 5805 is awsome and if somone starting out makes something with those fearures and at that cost a priority.
It is the last reciever he will ever need, (not want) need, in his lifetime, INMHO.

I mean lets get serious.
Sorry if my opinion gets some folks bent out of shape. I'm talking 1 box solutions here, if your love is separates that a subject for a different thread.

Peter m.

 

[PerryD]

Will it process any future HD-DVD lossless DTS soundtracks without new DSP chips with the horsepower to handle the new sound formats?

 

[John S]

Right now, I would not lable any DD 5.1 decent AVR as even close to obsolete. But that is just me. Obsolete and wanting all the latest and greatest DSP's / video switching / ect..ect.. Are two different things.

In the end, I say buy what you want, use it till it dies, or your no longer happy with it and call it all good.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Yes! The Texas Instrument lates DSP has the most processing power to date and the 5805 has 3! of them.
Having said that HD DTS is nothing but an extension to core algorythm,and don't think it would tax the TI chips,but never the less might require other firmware upgrade,which Denon could do if they wanted to.

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi,
I can't speak for the actual 5803 regarding offerred upgrades but since the last one the Denon mentioned that there may be something for us down the line.

If DTS-HD comes out as a true 7.1 choice it may already be covered by the last upgrade but in anycase the upgrade would have to have alot more than DPL X2 to make me unplug the 28 inputs now being used. Even though the 5800/03 weighs a paltry 62lbs in comparison to the 5805, its still really awkword to move even though I can drive it to Denon myself as long as I have an upgrade PO in my pocket from a local dealer.

BTW, even though I use all my speaker ports, mainly because 5 are matched for HIREZ music and I add Dipoles and effects for EX and ES software, I agree whole heartedly that one could be happy for life with a good 5.1 setup. If my wife hadden't been the darling she is and gave up the Master bedroom as a designated HT (since we have a condo with no basement) I would have a much smaller display and 5.1 only because the living room would be the only other option and due to the fact that kitchen/dining/living room is open plan,sound balancing not to mention cabeling for 9 speakers would have made it look rediculous.

Fortuneately, the MB has two outside walls, the ceiling is concrete and being on the second floor were luckey in that were above the condo's Party room, so I can turn up the volume without worrying about a visit from my neighbours.

On the positive side for the non HT portion of our lives the living room has a small 3.1 setup with a 27" 4:3 tv and can be used for entertaining without being dominated by equipment.

All of this being said I'm still looking forward to reading professional reviews of the 5805, particularly of interest is what software it can and cannot scale from it's component outputs. If it scales "store bought dvds" to 1080i or 720p well, ( the manual doesn't use the HDCP phrase when it comes to component but it does say copy protected, the $6000 list price may not look so huge for those using or thinking of buying a vid scaler.

I remember the reviews of the 5803 saying that it was the first "Flagship Reciever" that could compete with the SQ of "High End Separates". If you believe those reviews and also have a room where sound can truly be controled, true audiophiles can access if the tradeoff to a one box solution is worth it.

Peter m.

 

[JackS]

Pete- All high end AVR's in all reviews are invariably mentioned to compete successfully with seperates.
I have never read a review yet that stated that any receiver was the equivilent to seperates.
Most of this commentary is very complimentry to the brand being reviewed and at the same time very glib.
I personally don't think these reviews will ever change in the favor of receivers over seperates or that a comment will ever appear that states " This receiver is the the equivilent to my audio seperates".
Right or wrong, this is just the nature and ingrained "think" that will probably never change.

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi Jack,
I haven't read every review out there, but I have taken special interest when the flagship avr's are given in-depth reviews by those who are not afraid to call a spade a friggin shovel.

The point that I was making is that when the 5803 was introduced many reviewers suggested that this was the FIRST time that a flagship reciever could be compared favourably to, or approached the sound quality of High End Separates. Due to the fact that many reviewers echoed the same sentiment was of particular note (not because those comparisons are made all the time)but because "First Time" and "High End Separates" kept being repeated.

Someone else may very well point to other reviews where separates and avr's were compared but I haven't read any that singeled out a Flagship reciever with those accolades at the time the 5803 was introduced. It's been a couple of years now, maybe there are several others that have gotten the same praise but when the 5803 came out it was the talk of the town.

Peter m.

 

[John S]

I don't think many other AVR's come near as close as the 5800 line or heck even the 4800 line if you ask me. But I am biased I love Denon's AVR's in general myself.

Once at this level, it really starts to become tit for tat and preference and bias and ect..ect...

I will only re-itterate, that I love the sound of Denon power amps. Nearly all other amps and particularly amps rated much better than Denon highly fatigue me when listening to brash horns loud which I do a lot of.

I'll keep my lowly Denon 4802 over just about anything else I have found to date.

I think the 5805 is a pretty good bargain at it's pricing, the MSRP is to high, but the real world on the street pricing seems more than fair for what you are getting.

 

[Lewis Besze]

There are several reasons for that,and the most prominent is bias.People who write for "high end" magazines are not very open minded when it comes to receivers especially if it's from a Japanese company.Sadly these are the same people who ask us to believe that many components have their own signature sound or major impact on the overal sound that actually may not be part of the acrual signal,or has very little to with it.:Trust your ears" they say,[which usually means trust their opinions ] I say trust your common sense,or own judgement, and educate yourself as whhat is relevant and what is not.

 

[Miguel Stanic]

I think the Denon 5700 was really the piece that made headlines. It was unique and the first receiver to carry high end internal components (Burr Brown DAC). It paved the way for the current 5800 line. The 5600 was no slouch either, Denon started making headway with this unit, but the 5700 was the real refinement into cutting the gap between receivers and seperates. I don't think Pioneer acheived this until they introduced their 49TX unit.

There are times when I want to have the 5805 instead of my current D1 but the 5805's height is not something I can get passed. Not to mention, I'd only use it as a preamp and the upgrade path may not be there whereas it almost seems a certainty with the Anthem D1.

 

[Ted Pugh]

quote:

"There are several reasons for that,and the most prominent is bias.People who write for "high end" magazines are not very open minded when it comes to receivers especially if it's from a Japanese company.Sadly these are the same people who ask us to believe that many components have their own signature sound or major impact on the overal sound that actually may not be part of the acrual signal,or has very little to with it.:Trust your ears" they say,[which usually means trust their opinions ] I say trust your common sense,or own judgement, and educate yourself as whhat is relevant and what is not."

Lewis, I agree with this statement. Most reviewers in the so called big magazines are bias especially in regards to receivers vs. seperates as well as who advertises the most with them. I bet if you put these reviewers up to a double blind test that they would not be able to tell the difference between the Denon 5805 and the high end seperates from Anthem, Lexicon, B&K, Krell etc.

The guts of the Denon are superior to what you find in most of these seperates plus the features, HDMI, DVI, iLink, scaling etc.

A lot of people buy into the seperates (including myself) because we have been brain washed into thinking the sound quality is better and the upgrade path. How many seperates on the market can compete with the DSP's, DAC's, features etc. of the Denon 5805. None! Denon has made this model to last and I believe they will support it well into the next decade. Just my .02 worth.

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi,
I've seen Gene DellaSala's equipment reviews in A/V Mags as I would imagine many of you have.

If your interested in not only seeing an indepth (7)pages review of the 5803 but also a step by step bi-amping method of unused channels and if thats got you interested to the point of wondering who has the best price on it you just click on that icon at the end of the review. It's at www.audioholics.com.

Peter m.

 

[Ted Pugh]

Are they still going to manufacture the 5803 or is being discontinued? Two of those for my whole house audio and 5.1 systems for the great room and master bedroom would be nice. Does anyone know if you can run keypads to the 5803 or are you only allowed to run volume control and IR?

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi Ted,
I think it will accept the latest gadgets used by HT installers. I also think the 5803's remote can be RF as well as IR. If the 5805 takes off, I could see new 5803's under $3000. If it doesen't, it might go in the other direction. There's a Flagship Reciever forum with Denon on it, you might want to Google it and ask your question there about if more are being made.

Peter m.