Denon AVR 5803 Price Question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ali_Jafari, Jul 8, 2002.

  1. Ali_Jafari

    Ali_Jafari Agent

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    I've been an avid reader of this forum and appreciate the informative and intelligent feedback.

    I'm in the market for an a/v receiver and am considering Denon's flagship 5803. I've seen it listed on Ebay for as low as $1,500, which is a great deal given the $3,500 + MSRP price. BTW, I've also seen the Denon 9000 DVD player for as low as $500 on Ebay!

    My question is, has anyone had experience buying such expensive equipment from these, what I assume are, unauthorized dealers. And if so, what was the experience like, what are the risks, etc.? I'd also be interested to know how these places can list this equipment for so much less than the MSRP. Thank you very much for the feedback.
     
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Ali, first of all, welcome to the Forum. Secondly, I'm sure you will get responses here, but there is a board dedicated to the discussion of receivers. I know you are new here, but at least you know for the future.

    The Denon AVR-5803 retails for $4300, so I don't see how anyone selling a new unit on eBay would let it go for $1500. Even a used one should go for much more since it couldn't be heavily used (the '5803 is a new model). It could be that the seller started the bidding at $1500, but has a reserve price (minimum selling price) set much higher. The same goes for the Denon DVD-9000. It retails for $3500, so I can't see how anyone would let it go for $500.

    Buying from an unauthorized dealer can be a dicey proposition. There is the possibility that the manufacturer will not cover your component(s) if you buy from an unauthorized dealer. Some manufacturers take a hard line, while others are more lax. Denon is considered to be one that takes a relatively hard line. For example, they have always had a statement on their web site saying that you must buy from an authorized dealer to obtain warranty coverage. Buyer beware. I always buy from an authorized dealer unless an item is only available from an unauthorized dealer. Buying from authorized dealers gives me piece of mind.
     
  3. Greg Haynes

    Greg Haynes Supporting Actor

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    I would be EXTREMELY hestitant on bidding on those hard to believe prices. What was his feedback rating? What was the final auction price?
     
  4. Matthew Speed

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    If you are seeing a genuine 5803 with a reserve that low, it is one of two things
    1) Stolen
    2) A black or grey market european model that has been diverted back to the US by several means.

    Denon tracks its serial numbers very carefully, and requires receipts on every warranty covered service.

    Buy from an authorized dealer. You can't go wrong.
     
  5. Ali_Jafari

    Ali_Jafari Agent

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    Thank you very much for your feedback. It sounds like going with an authorized dealer is a no brainier in terms of support and piece of mind relative to a $4,000 purchase. BTW, the user ratings for the sellers on ebay that are listing these products for less than MSRP are good, however they are obviously not authorized dealers.
    "If it's too good to be true, it probably is."
    Having said that, http://www.6ave.com/ , which is listed as an authorized dealer on the Denon site, quoted the 5803 at $3,500, and the DVD 9000 for $2,200.
    1) Are these good/competitive prices?
    2) Has anyone had experience buying equipment from them in the past, and if so what was the experience like?
    Thanks again all.
     
  6. Greg Haynes

    Greg Haynes Supporting Actor

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    Ali,

    Those prices are pretty good for an authorized dealer. But I have read a member here that got this 5803 for around $3200 at Tweeter. ChipE was his name.

    Not sure about the DVD 9000 since I haven't been really following its prices. You might want to do a search on it here. Michael Lee had one and did a review on it last month.
     
  7. Rodon

    Rodon Second Unit

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    I emailed the dealer on Ebay that had teh 5803 for the $1500 price range.

    His reply was something like:
    I am in Spain and work close to a company that makes or does something with the 5803. and wish to do a money transfer. To make it safe you can send it to someone with a different name - one that you choose. Once the money is received at his destination he will call and verify it is there with the fake name. Then he ships the receiver to you. When you receive it you then call and have the name changed on the wire transfer so he can get his money.

    I replied back that I had the cash for teh receiver and since he does not have the money before he sends teh unit, to go ahead and send it COD - I will pay the fees. Then when it is received by me, and looks/tests out OK I will pay teh driver and then he will get certified funds - otherwise he gets his receiver back. I sent that as a reply and have not heard back from him. Smells fishy to me. I will post his exact reply later tonight.
     
  8. rodney wiley

    rodney wiley Second Unit

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    Smells more than fishy to me! [​IMG]
     
  9. PalauE

    PalauE Auditioning

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    www.crazyeddie.com has the 5803 for $2985 and the 9000 for $2530 but crazyeddie will price match the place you found it for $2200 and they are also an authorized dealer and on the up and up.
     
  10. Greg Haynes

    Greg Haynes Supporting Actor

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    Palau,
    If you check out Denon's website (Denon )you will see that there is only a few Denon Authorized Dealers and Crazyeddie's is not one. So buying from Crazyeddie's might get you a really good price but you will receive no help from Denon if anything goes wrong.
    Authorized DENON Online E-Tailers:
    GoodGuys.com
    ListenUp.com
    Sears.com (Limited Selection)
    Crutchfield.com
    Ovation-AV.com
    6th Avenue Electronics.com
    Abt Electronics.com (Specialty Audio Only)
     
  11. Greg Haynes

    Greg Haynes Supporting Actor

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    Oh yeah, welcome to the forum Palau [​IMG]
     
  12. Gary_Morris

    Gary_Morris Auditioning

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    There has been a scam similar to this going on at the online auction sites for a while so be very cautious about this. I've posted the following article from msnbc.com
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    June 27 — A collection of Web auction scam artists are ripping off plasma TV buyers, stealing thousands of dollars per victim, MSNBC.com has learned. The scam works thanks to a bit of wire transfer chicanery. Victims agree to make payment with Western Union, but are instructed to follow procedures that supposedly make the funds untouchable until the TV is delivered — the instructions, of course, are a sham. According the one auction fraud expert, thousands of eBay and uBid users may have already fallen for it.
    APPARENTLY, SCAMMERS NOW know many consumers have misgivings about sending money to strangers over wire transfers. So they have come up with a fast-talking method to reassure the skeptical and overcome resistance to using Western Union.
    “Here {sic} what you will do to feel safe and also to show me that you want to pay me,” said one scam artist, in an e-mail viewed by MSNBC.com.
    The scam artist asks the victim to send the money and make up a name to list as the recipient — perhaps the victim’s sister, or wife.
    “That way, I will be able to verify if the money are sent {sic}, BUT I will not be able to collect it,” writes the scammer. He leads the victim to believe that Western Union carefully verifies the recipient’s identity.
    It doesn’t. As long as the scam artists arrives at the Western Union office with the correct money transfer control number, the criminal can walk off with the money, according to Rosalinda Baldwin, CEO of The Auction Guild, an auction watchdog company.
    Wendy Carver-Herbert, a spokesperson for Western Union, said recipients are required to present identification, but conceded that a good-looking counterfeit ID would probably be good enough.
    “If it’s an ID that looks as if it’s official, the money would be paid,” Carver-Herbert said.
    Scamsters apparently convince victims they won’t pick up the money by offering detailed instructions on what to do after the TV arrives.
    “After I will see that you have sent the money I will send you the package,” the scam artist continues. “And after you will receive it and test it you will make a call to Western Union to change the receiver name into my name. It will not cost you anything.”
    Actually, it costs a lot.
    One victim who contacted MSNBC.com lost $3,000, which would have been a steal for a large plasma television. Instead, the money was stolen, and the TV never arrived.
    Another victim said the seller just disappeared after he sent the money. “Two days after I sent the money I got a confirmation from Westernunion.com that it was picked up. At that time I was sure that I had been taken. I tried to e-mail seller with no reply,” the victim said. “I contacted Western Union to see if they had any protection against this for their customers. Got a reply (saying) they were under no obligation for lost funds,” he said. ”(I) Just wonder how many got taken on these scams.”
    Perhaps thousands have, said The Auction Guild’s Baldwin. She said she’s heard of about two dozen “name-switching” scam victims in recent weeks and suspects for every victim she knows, there might be a thousand others.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Hope this helps.
     
  13. Rodon

    Rodon Second Unit

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    Hmmm - I think I found teh same person. Here is his reply to "What is your safe payment idea?"
    > Hi !
    > I have to tell you that i'm in Spain now so that
    > the shipping will be done from there.
    > Look how the things stay:I am in Palma de Mallorca
    > (Spain) now where I have my source that works directly
    > in the factory.The product is new sealed in the
    > original box with all the accesories and has one year
    > international warranty fully transmissible.The
    > shipping is with UPS, will take 48h and I'll pay
    > the fees.
    > The payment is through Western Union money transfer.
    > If you feel uncomfortable doing a wire transfer
    > directly on my details I
    > have a solution. You can do the Western transfer to my
    > location, but not to my name. You'll use a fictive or
    > one of your choise instead(your father's name for
    > example). This way I won't be able
    > to pick up the money. You'll give me the used name and
    > the MTCN (money transfer control number) from Western
    > Union
    > so I can call my local office and check the status of
    > the transfer. -
    > . Online check of the transfer doesn't prove me
    > that the funds are available in Spain. If all is OK I
    > ship the product and email you the UPS tracking
    > number. Only after you receive the package and make
    > sure is allright you'll call Western union and change
    > the transfer to my name.The transfer can be done
    > online, using the creditcard. I belive after that you
    > have to call Western and
    > confirm the transfer, for security reasons.
    > This is the fastest way to conclude this deal and the
    > same time is a method with no risks involved for both
    > of us.Another buyer proposed me this method and I
    > accepted it because if you will not change the
    > transfer on my details after reciving the product I
    > will have your name and adress from the transfer and I
    > am sure for such amount you will not want police over
    > internet to knock to your door and also at such a
    > price I am sure you'll buy from me in future too and
    > you'll have more to win that this first amount.Also I
    > will give you my details and to know on which details
    > you will change after you receive the units.
    >
    > FIRST NAME:TIM
    > LAST NAME:MADOC
    > ADRESS:CALLE VISTA ALEGRE
    > CITY[​IMG]ALMA DE MALLORCA
    > COUNTRY:SPAIN
    > ZIP:07015
    >
    > If you agree you can close a deal right now if the
    > price is good for you because I can get more than one
    > product and also I prefer closing deals without
    > ebay(not to pay them the fees).Best regards!
    >
     
  14. PalauE

    PalauE Auditioning

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    oops -- I just saw the warranty info from crazyeddie and assumed it was authorized. Thanks for the welcome [​IMG]
     
  15. Rodon

    Rodon Second Unit

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    I emailed the high bidder of the auction above. He did not pay thankfully and the user has been banned again. Glad the bidder did not get scammed!!
    Buyers beware.
    On a good note I sold some car audio subs on ebay. Lets see how the auction payment turns out.
    Just payed for my 3802 with them and teh sale of my old receiver. And made $5 [​IMG]
     

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